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Q: enlightenment ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   4 Comments )
Subject: enlightenment
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: zulu500-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 11 Apr 2003 23:08 PDT
Expires: 11 May 2003 23:08 PDT
Question ID: 189570
what is the quickest way to become enlightened? If you are in a
trascendental state through meditiation etc and you are killed is that
the same as being totally awakened (ie living 24/7 in the state of
transcendental bliss)then passing over to the next place?

Clarification of Question by zulu500-ga on 11 Apr 2003 23:11 PDT
I have heard it said that to make the journey you must embrace
unconditional love and acceptance (and therefore see God in yourself
and all things). IF this makes the question any easier, what is the
quickest way to develop to this level? (It is easy to love a puppy but
then it makes a mess and frustration etc come up- how can one be fully
"awakened" so beyond the earth planes negativitiy and ego's easily
offended nature?
Subject: Re: enlightenment
Answered By: sublime1-ga on 12 Apr 2003 15:42 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars

In my own 25+ year search for such a path, it became evident
that most disciplines embrace the step of silencing the mind.
Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan called it "stopping the internal
dialogue". Many disciplines approach this goal through
meditation. Many attempt to arrive at ultimate silence by way
of first focusing the mind, using mantra (a verbal focus), or
Yantra (a visual focus), believing that, if the mind can be
disciplined to obtain such a focus, it can then surrender to
silence. Someone once said that there are as many forms of
meditation as there are individuals practicing it.

Once reached, the silence of the mind gives way to subtler
ways of knowing - intuition, feeling, attunement to spirit
and simply 'knowing' in the gnostic sense, and one can be
guided to deeper and deeper comprehension of the true nature
of things. 

Upon reaching this inner silence, one experiences things in
a different way. Perhaps the best and most famous description
of this state of mind is described in the 'Hsin Hsin Ming',
or 'The Book of Nothing', attributed to Seng-t'san, the third
Zen Patriarch, who speaks of the Tao, or the 'Way':

"The Great Way is not difficult
 for those who have no preferences.
 When love and hate are both absent
 everything becomes clear and undisguised.
 Make the smallest distinction, however,
 and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart."

"If you wish to see the truth
 then hold no opinions for or against anything.
 To set up what you like against what you dislike
 is the disease of the mind.
 When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
 the mind’s essential peace is disturbed to no avail."

"The Way is perfect like vast space
 where nothing is lacking and nothing in excess.
 Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject
 that we do not see the true nature of things."


"The more you talk and think about it,
 the further astray you wander from the truth.
 Stop talking and thinking,
 and there is nothing you will not be able to know."


"Do not search for the truth;
 only cease to cherish opinions.
 do not remain in the dualistic state.
 Avoid such pursuits carefully.
 If there is even a trace of this and that,
 of right and wrong,
 the mind-essence will be lost in confusion."

"Although all dualities come from the One,
 do not be attached even to this One.
 When the mind exists undisturbed in the Way,
 nothing in the world can offend.
 And when a thing can no longer offend,
 it ceases to exist in the old way."

"When no discriminating thoughts arise,
 the old mind ceases to exist.
 When thought objects vanish,
 the thinking-subject vanishes:
 As when the mind vanishes, objects vanish."
"Things are objects because of the subject (mind):
 the mind (subject) is such because of things (object).
 Understand the relativity of these two
 and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness.
 In this Emptiness the two are indistinguishable
 and each contains in itself the whole world.
 If you do not discriminate between coarse and fine
 you will not be tempted to prejudice and opinion."


"If the eye never sleeps,
 all dreams will naturally cease.
 If the mind makes no discriminations,
 the ten thousand things are as they are,
 of single essence.
 To understand the mystery of this One-essence
 is to be released from all entanglements."

The entire script can be viewed on the Spiritwalk site:

It should be evident from the above stanzas that the mind
which engages in judgments and distinctions cannot become
comfortably silent.

In my own efforts at meditation, after many, many years, 
I was able to quiet my mind for all of 30 seconds at a 
time. This did lead to some insights which were very
profound, but I was unable to maintain the silence long
enough for any true transformation to take place.

In my journaling, I wrote that there must be a path which
was not steeped in archaic tradition and a complex hierarchy
which would give out truth on a piecemeal basis, constantly
requiring further 'contributions' for the next 'level'. One
that used no 'special' language or vocabulary, but simply
dealt with awareness, consciousness, attention and will.

A short while later, I was introduced to Avatar. One of the
flyers I read suggested that one could learn to silence the 
mind at will, and for as long as one might choose.

I took the course, and later the Masters course, licensing me
to deliver it to others. As advertised, the initial course
contained all the 'tools' you might need to work with your
own consciousness in order to achieve enlightenment. Nothing
was withheld, and no further association with the organization,
Stars Edge International, is required.

The Avatar course is an experiential, more than verbal, course
about the dynamics of attention, perception, will, awareness,
beliefs, and the dynamics of creation and discreation.

In section II of the Avatar course I learned how easy it was
to let go of the burden of thinking verbal thoughts, at will.
It can't really be explained in words such that one can learn
to do it thereby, but I can say that the experience was very
much like realizing that I had been holding two suitcases full
of bricks, one in each hand, for my entire life, and that all
I had to do was recognise their weight and let go. I lost so
much mental weight so quickly that the after-effect was like
flying! In the spacious silence that followed, I felt very
connected, in a feeling way, with everything. Now I can, and do,
pick up the suitcases for the sake of exercise, as it were,
but can just as quickly put them down.

The essence of what is taught, experientially, is that, as the
Book of Nothing says, the judgments and distinctions of the 
mind interfere with our ability to be at peace and thereby
feel and perceive the world in a very different way. Once you
are able to experience the very real burden imposed by viewing
the world through the judgments created by the beliefs we hold,
it becomes obvious that we can release these beliefs and their
related judgments, and the tools for doing so are provided.

You learn, experientially, that whether adopted by tradition,
osmosis, or choice, the beliefs you hold are responsible for 
the judgments you make as to what is good or bad, desirable
or repulsive. You learn that these judgments are a virtual
prison which keep you attached to your usual view of yourself
and your relationship to the world around you. And you learn
that, since you (knowingly or not) created these beliefs, you
can also discreate them - and you are given the tools, or
processes to do so.

The course is available in 65 countries and all 50 states.
It takes 9 days to learn the tools and as long as you choose
to use them for the purpose of enlightenment. There are
Buddhist monks who have stated they achieved their long
sought state of enlightenment during the course itself.
Yet, since it is a course about belief management, there
are many others who have successfully applied the tools
toward different goals, such as business, relationships
or health. The homepage for Stars Edge is here:

You can search for a licensed Master in your location, here:

You can review success stories here:

You can sign up for a free Journal, sent quarterly, here:

The contact page for Stars Edge is here:

You can download a free (pdf file) copy of 'Living Deliberately',
the story of Harry Palmer's discovery of the processes which he
distilled into the Avatar course, and required reading for the 
course, here:

Another site which has archives of the Avatar Journal (which
sometimes contain exercises from the ReSurfacing Workbook,
another required text for the course) is Avatar Overdrive:

This should be a sufficient introduction to what, I'm certain,
is currently the fastest, safest and most enjoyable path to
enlightenment on the planet.

Please do not rate this answer until you are satisfied that
the answer cannot be improved upon by means of a dialog
established through the "Request for Clarification" process.


Searches done, via Google:

"Book of Nothing" "Seng Ts'an"

Stars Edge

Avatar overdrive
zulu500-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thank you all very much! :)

Subject: Re: enlightenment
From: magnesium-ga on 12 Apr 2003 07:50 PDT
If you are seeking the "quickest way," then the concept of
enlightenment has eluded you. I don't think any true enlightenment can
be reached if you have an attitude of seeking it with the least amount
of effort or the briefest expense of attention, as if it is something
not really worth your time. Enlightenment isn't a fast food joint with
a drive-thru window. ;)
Subject: Re: enlightenment
From: voila-ga on 12 Apr 2003 13:07 PDT
Hi Zulu,

I agree with magnesium but I don't think anyone would presuppose to
advise _you_ how to obtain enlightenment.  For me, it takes a constant
daily chipping away at the "diamond" mentioned here:

From your other question on DMT, I can only surmise you're considering
a blasting cap approach to reach this state.  Many seekers have taken
route, accompanied by a decent guide, and have found what they're
looking for.  However, those of us in the enlightenment slow lane
don't feel there's any true Enlightenment Expressway.

As for a 24-hr/day enlightened state, I doubt there are very many
people who experience this.  Most folks have only glimpses of what
could be.  These little peeks into the beyond, I feel, are invitations
to go deeper into whatever self-enquiry path you've chosen.  I hope
you'll be patient with yourself.

Tibet's Great Yogi Milarepa
Editor: W.Y. Evans-Wentz

"What is the Quickest Way to Enlightenment" someone recently asked HH
Dalai Lama? Upon hearing such a question, this great Nobel Laureaut 
leaned over into his own lap and wept. A stunned audience waited in 
silence. Then the Dalai Lama began to recount the life of Milarepa. 
The years of arduous practice while living in a cave were a strong 
part of his training. Early in his life Milarepa was misdirected. He 
caused a lot of suffering and had been trained in black magic. The 
great teacher Marpa guided Milarepa back onto the path of wisdom with
incredible skill. The 'Songs of Milarepa' are famous exclamations of 
living wisdom. This book about one of the greatest Tibetan yogis is a
must read for inspiration and a glimpse into what it really takes to 
attain enlightenment.

I wish you well on your journey and thanks for asking an important 
question today.


You might find some of your answers pertaining to DMT here:
Subject: Re: enlightenment
From: sian-ga on 13 Apr 2003 12:52 PDT
Time and again over the years, I've come to learn that walking the
spiritual path properly is a very subtle process, especially when
you're trying to intensify the transcendental apperception of the
Third Eye (i.e., the Ajna Chakra), which, of course, requires a great
deal of discipline given the hypnotic power of the phenomenal world of
Maya (a Skr. word often transl. "illusion").

In my opinion, one must first descend into the infinitesimal and most
subjective reaches of the psyche in order to experience enlightenment,
for that is where I believe the all-embracing divinity, or entelechy,
lies hidden. The few times I've had the good fortune to achieve the
unio mystica, so to speak, with the divinity within, its noumenal
quality seemed to violate all sense of sacredness, yet it was bliss.
Subject: Re: enlightenment
From: ctannlund-ga on 09 Mar 2005 21:16 PST
Since Castaneda's concept of "stopping the world" was mentioned in the
answer above, I would like to recommend an article I wrote on this
same concept, only as found in the writings of novelist Margaret
atwood.  The article is entitled "Stopping the World: A Shamanic
Perspective on Margaret Atwood's 'Surfacing'," and can be found at  Scroll down toward the
bottom of the page for the link to the full article.  I hope you find
it interesting!

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