Greetings, 8675309, and thank you for your question.
Let me point out one thing. What 1 Thess. 4:16 mentions is the Trump
of God.
"The Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and
the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive
and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to
meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
(1 Thess. 4:16-17, NIV)
the "Last Trump" is mentioned elsewhere:
"… For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we will be changed."
(1 Cor. 15:52)
However, since both trumps signal the resurrection of the dead in
Christ and the transformation of the living faithful, they are taken
to be the same Trump. This last trump, as you may well know, is also
the signal for Christ's return.
You asked if the Last Trump will be blown on Pentecost. This is
unlikely, this is because Rosh Hashanah or the Feast of Trumpets is
four days apart from Pentecost (explanation in the last link below).
The writer in the first link mentioned below says that the Last Trump
is likely to be sounded on the Feast of Trumpets date, after
Pentecost. Missler himself does not say that the Last Trump happens on
Pentecost. Pentecost though, is thought to be one of the preludes to
Christ's coming. What remains to be seen though, is when this Feast of
Trumpets resurrection will happen.
Sources:
The Last Trump
http://members.aol.com/zimlechem/trump.html
About those Trumpets - by Sojourners of the Lord
http://www.purewords.org/sojourner/html/trumpets.htm
The Last Trump PDF explanation
http://www.homestead.com/PROPHECYCENTER/files/THE_LAST_TRUMP_TWO_HUNDRED_MILLION_of_Sixth_Trumpet_Judgment__Rapture__First_Resurrection.doc
Judaism 101: Rosh Hashanah
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday2.htm
Rosh HaShanah / The Feast of Trumpets - Chapter 7
http://www.hebroots.com/chap7.html
The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShanah)
http://www.angelfire.com/on/torahboy/page5.html
Tabernacle - Rosh Hashanah information
http://www.geocities.com/his_emissary/tab31.html
Search terms used
last trump thessalonians 4:16
rosh hashanah
rosh hashanah trumpets
I hope this answer has been satisfactory. Should you find any problem
with it, please post a request for clarification. Thank you. |
Request for Answer Clarification by
8675309-ga
on
21 Apr 2003 11:25 PDT
Hi techtor -
Thanks for answering my question.
I need some clarification though.
I like the first part of your answer, with regard to clarifying that
it's the "trump of God." But you said "'the last trump' is mentioned
elsewhere." That 1 Cor. scripture you mention doesn't say the words
"last trump."
Second, don't know where you got this statement from:
"...Rosh Hashanah or the Feast of Trumpets is four days apart from
Pentecost (explanation in the last link below)."
Pentecost is in the Spring, and Rosh Hashanah is in the Fall. They're
months away from each other.
And this:
"The writer in the first link mentioned below says that the Last Trump
is likely to be sounded on the Feast of Trumpets date, after
Pentecost." I'm aware that a very many people preach this, but I am
not convinced that it is. A good majority of people will say it is,
but I'm thinking there could be a grave misleading, because Rosh
Hashanah is NOT the Biblical new year. It is the civil/secular new
year; this calendar is of no relevance to Biblical events. Although
trumpets are blown on this feast, it is not one of the main feasts of
God [Pentecost, Passover, and Booths]. I should have written the
question a little clearer, but I wanted some resources to substantiate
Pentecost as the "trump of God" for the 1. Thess scripture. Chuck
Missler mentions that Pentecost might be it, because of the "trump of
God" argument. But I think there may be more to substantiate it.
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
8675309-ga
on
21 Apr 2003 11:28 PDT
I shouldn't have said Rosh Hashana "is not one of the main feasts of
God"... it just may possibly not play as much of a role in future end
time events; but I'm not sure of this.
|
Clarification of Answer by
techtor-ga
on
21 Apr 2003 22:32 PDT
Ah, thank you for pointing out my errors. I should have written "four
months apart" and not four days. That's what I get for hurrying up. ;)
What I meant in my first part was that the "Trump of God" is called
the "Last Trump" in another passage, but is understood to talk about
the same thing. Again, another vagueness in my phraseology. I had the
idea that they were different at first, but after more research I
realized they were the same.
As for Chuck Missler's article, note he used a question: "Could both
of these references to the "Trumpet of God" be connected with the 6th
of Sivan (Pentecost and the 'rapture' of Enoch)?" It seems to be
Missler's own opinion that the rapture may occur on a 6th of Sivan of
a certain year. It doesn't say exactly though that the Last
Trump/Trump of God will be on Pentecost.
If you're looking for another article relating the last Trumpet to the
Pentecost, here is one:
OmegaTime.Org-Pentecost
http://www.omegatime.org/pentecost.htm
Search string: pentecost last trump
I think that Missler and the OmegaTime writer suggest that the First
Trump of Pentecost may become the Last Trump when the resurrection
time comes. It is one guess about the day when the resurrection and
'rapture' will occur, though they are quite educated guesses in my
opinion.
My apologies for having posted misleading phrases in my answer. I hope
I was able to correct them for you.
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
8675309-ga
on
21 Apr 2003 23:01 PDT
Thanks for your clarification. One more, if you don't mind, and I'll
leave you alone :)
"What I meant in my first part was that the "Trump of God" is called
the "Last Trump" in another passage, but is understood to talk about
the same thing. Again, another vagueness in my phraseology. I had the
idea that they were different at first, but after more research I
realized they were the same."
Can you give me an example of this? Why do you think this? In 1 Cor.
15:52, does it say last trump?
|
Clarification of Answer by
techtor-ga
on
22 Apr 2003 00:00 PDT
Well, being a GA Researcher, I guess I'm obliged to follow up on any
Request for Clarification. ;)
I believe the Last Trump of 1 Cor. 15:52 and the Trump of God in 1
Thes. 4:16 are the same because they are both blown before the
resurrection of the dead faithful and the transformation of the living
faithful. If you'll reread the verses, those events are mentioned,
though in different wordings. So I assume they are one and the same
trumpet blast. However, I myself may have been too hasty again in
saying "I realized". There several interpretations of these Trumpets
from different people, so mine is just one of them. I also assume my
belief is the most common. The first link I gave above about the Last
Trump ( http://members.aol.com/zimlechem/trump.html )seems to place
the Trumps of 1 Cor. 15:52 and 1 Thes. 4:16 together as the same.
Hope that helps. God bless!
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
8675309-ga
on
22 Apr 2003 10:13 PDT
Hi -
Thanks for the follow up. I did not mean to abuse the system at
all... I just felt like I hadn't gotten the complete answer; hope you
don't mind. Anyhow, there is at least one translation for that 1 Cor.
scripture that actually uses "last trump." So I could see how one
could interpret those as the same.
Thanks.
|
Clarification of Answer by
techtor-ga
on
23 Apr 2003 23:16 PDT
I'm just responding so I can get the 'needs clarification' indicator
off my account page. Please don't respond to this. Thanks again.
|
Hi! 8675309. I have just read all the preceding comments on the
scripture you asked about. Does any of it offer you any hope for the
future. I know that the bible can be quite obtuse and confusing at
times but if you take all the scriptures together, a theme appears.
This theme is " The Kingdom of god". Or to put it another way, the
Government of God. The "Lord" mentioned in 1 Thessalonians is not God,
but Jesus. Jesus is the archangel. The number one. Jesus said himself
in Matthew 28;18.."All authority has been given to me in heaven and on
the earth". God`s trumpet [or warning call] is the message that Jesus
brought to men. And men having been given, by God, freedom of choice,
can choose who they will serve and worship. 2 Corinthians 11;14 says
that Satan keeps transforming himself into an Angel of Light, meaning
he has the ability to look quite wholesome...on the outside..The last
part of the scripture refers to those who have died and were faithful
up to the time of their deaths, will be resurrected first, that is
brought back to life on this earth. The persons whom Jesus and the
Apostles resurrected were brought back to life e.g. Lazarau, the son
of the widow of Nain, and the young daughter of the army officer. even
though they had actually died, they were brought back to life. But
they are not alive today, so they must have lived on, grown old and
died a second time. Romans 6;23 says "The wages sin pays is death. We
are all imperfect so therefore we have all sinned. This situation will
not go on forever. The imperfection of us all was inherited from our
original parents, Adam and Eve..Genesis 2;26 onwards. The bible
promises an end to death. 1 Corinthians 15;54, And what happens to
those who are still living when there is no more death? Have a look at
Psalms 37; 9, " those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess
the earth". 10. "The wicked one [satan] will be no more". 11. "But the
meek ones themselves will possess the earth". 28 "The offspring of the
wicked ones, They will indeed be cut off". 29. The righteous
themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon
it. It`s a simple matter to tie the two together and there will be
people living on the earth forever, and not experiencing death. Now
that is a nice future and is the hope of the Bible, Not all the
gobbledegook about "Trump this and Trump that" |
