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Q: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations? ( No Answer,   4 Comments )
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Subject: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations?
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: grumpus-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 13 Nov 2002 08:29 PST
Expires: 20 Nov 2002 12:56 PST
Question ID: 106891
Does anyone have any ideas about how to find people who have had
unusual, interesting, ridiculous or frustrating beyond belief battles
with corporations or branches of government and have preserved the
copies of correspondence or e-mails that tell their stories? I have
such a collection myself , about 30,000 words of snail mail and e-mail
correspondence about a  number of such battles that I have had over
the last 25 or so years,  and I think it could provide the basis for a
book (that I would most likely self publish) if I can find fellow
consumer warriors who can contribute their stories. I have made a few
posts to news groups, but got no serious replies. I’ve looked at
consumer groups and consumer complaint sites on line, but these don’t
appear to be sources for finding people who have had similar
experiences to mine. I have also sent out pleas to consumer columnists
at a handful of major newspapers. Again - not a bite. I’d probably get
some decent responses if I could advertise in these and other papers,
but I can’t afford to do that. I just need to get the ball rolling
somehow and I’d welcome any comments,   ideas, words of encouragement
- anything!!!!
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

The following answer was rejected by the asker (they received a refund for the question).
Subject: Re: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations?
Answered By: journalist-ga on 13 Nov 2002 09:51 PST
Rated:1 out of 5 stars
 
Greetings Grumpus!  Regarding your query on "how to find people who
have had
unusual, interesting, ridiculous or frustrating beyond belief battles
with corporations or branches of government and have preserved the 
copies of correspondence or e-mails that tell their stories," it
appears to me that you have been thorough in looking for people online
in existing groups so my first suggestion would be that you now
consider creating groups to which others may respond.

There are many messages boards on the web (as I'm sure you know) but
how about creating a few of your own?  Your efforts would require
patience for others to find your groups but I believe your efforts
would be rewarded if you are not in a hurry to locate these
individuals.  Also, if you are not a member of AOL, it may behoove you
to join for at least a month to be able to search the groups there.

Yahoo! Groups would be my first choice for a place to create a group. 
I visited Yahoo! Groups and searched for "consumer complaint."  My
query returned only a handful of places you'd be likely to discover
information (and may have already looked) but you would first need to
join these groups and become an active member.  Before many people
will share, they want to feel a camaraderie with other members.

If you haven't executed a similar Yahoo! Group search, I did find one
good possibility of someone with which you might initiate contact. 
The owner of the group states "I'm Beezer Waistcoat and this group is
dedicated to the consumer crusades of my delightful brother, Baracus.
You will meet his various family members, his many friends and his
numerous enemies. Go to the Files section and read with interest his
letters of complaint to global companies/institutions that are
persistantly providing YOU with sub-standard service and products.
Thrill at my own journals detailing the traumatic incidents from which
the complaints arose." (Baracus Files 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baracus_files/)

The group has only one member but the first post was in October 2002
(fairly recent) so Beezer would probably be thrilled if you joined. 
You could then tell this person about your book to discover if the
person and the brother would like to share their experiences in print.

There were two other possibilities, both with low membership and posts
were not recent, so I haven't included those.  To create your own
group, you would simply visit http://groups.yahoo.com and make your
own group.  This would be in line with my second recommendation which
is to create a website about your quest.  It would require some effort
and small expense on your part but could bring in some solid leads.

A website costs about $80.00 a year to maintain.  A domain name can be
purchased for as little as $10 and good hosting for the site can be
had for as little as $50.  You wouldn't need a zillion site pages,
just a main page and perhaps two or three pages for samples of your
own experiences.  With a web page, keywords can be added to the
meta-tag to be spidered by search engines.  This way when someone
searched the web for "business complaint" or "customer complaint" or
whatever keywords you chose, they would see your site in the results. 
This method would depend on the time and money (and waiting) you'd be
willing to invest.

On the site you would also have a link to your message board(s) where
people could go to discuss their problems and such.  As I said before,
it would take time to build communication but your book idea is
interesting and I think there exists a market for the project you
suggest.


On another phrase search for "this company sucks," (and please excuse
the vulgarity but this is the way many express their dislike of a
company) I found a message from a person (Mike, Aug 2002) on a tech
site (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20020827/1240227.shtml) that
pointed to an ABC news article about company complaint web sites. 
This might be a great chapter (or even a theme) for your book as many
dissatisfied people have created these types of sites.

The article (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/forbes_complaints_020827.html)
lists five such sites and I think that contacting the site owers would
help you.  These are folks who felt strongly enough about their upset
with a company that they spent their time and money to create a
"sucks" website about the company.

The site links were not live so I browsed them for you (also to check
their validity - four worked) and they are as follows:

All State Insurance Sucks
http://www.allstateinsurancesucks.com/

Pay Pal Sucks
http://www.paypalsucks.com/

American Express Sucks
http://www.amexsux.com/

United Airlines
http://www.untied.com

There were message boards/forums on all these sites where other
customers had complained about the companies' services except
Untied.com.  Untied offered a link to complaints and a contact to send
a complaint.

In my opinion, you could find a wealth of people at these types of
sites who may be willing to go public with their experiences.  You may
find that pseudonyms will have to be offered these people before they
might agree to share any printed correspondence.  I'm sure you have
checked the legality of putting corporate correspondence/emails in
print or getting permission.  If not, I would suggest you speak with a
lawyer or publisher about this before publishing what a company might
feel was inappropriate.

Another often used word (considered by many to be more vulgar than
"sucks") may be viewed on the web site http://www.windows-sucks.com/. 
Using this alternate word, you might also try combinations of it with
various companies to see if similar sites exist.


As a fellow writer, I believe you have a marketable idea for a book. 
I hope my ideas and research assist you in your quest.  Should you
need any clarification before rating my answer, please request it and
I'll be happy to conduct additional research in this area.


SEARCH PHRASES:

yahoo groups
"this company sucks"
customer complaint
customer complaints
dissatisfied customer

Clarification of Answer by journalist-ga on 13 Nov 2002 11:34 PST
I am sorry you were displeased with my answer and wish you could have
requested a clarification before rating as I would have been happy to
continue researching for you.  Your statement of "I’d welcome any
comments, ideas, words of encouragement - anything!!!!" led me to
believe I was on the right track with my suggestions and research.

Request for Answer Clarification by grumpus-ga on 13 Nov 2002 13:26 PST
Sorry that we both misunderstood. I'm new to this and should have made
it clear that while I said I'd welcome comments and ideas and words of
encouragement, a research ANSWER for which I'd be willing to pay would
be something definitive about where there might be  a depository of
the kind of material I'm looking for or information on precisely where
to go to find the people I'm looking for based on prior, successful
research of a similar nature. News groups, chat rooms and web sites
loosely connected to my basic subject just don't qualify. I've already
been that route.

Clarification of Answer by journalist-ga on 13 Nov 2002 16:18 PST
The clarification option is sometimes overlooked or misunderstaood by
customers.  Sorry this occurred for you and good luck with your
project.
Reason this answer was rejected by grumpus-ga:
I posted the following as a follow up:
Sorry that we both misunderstood. I'm new to this and should have made
it clear that while I said I'd welcome comments and ideas and words of
encouragement, a research ANSWER for which I'd be willing to pay would
be something definitive about where there might be  a depository of
the kind of material I'm looking for or information on precisely where
to go to find the people I'm looking for based on prior, successful
research of a similar nature. News groups, chat rooms and web sites
loosely connected to my basic subject just don't qualify. I've already
been that route.
grumpus-ga rated this answer:1 out of 5 stars
Sorry journalist but your suggestions are not the way to go. I've been
to many more sites than you've suggested and I've even seen letters of
complaints written to corporations. There are a couple of so called
humorous books letters to coporations. What I'm looking for is not
people who have complaints, but people who have a record of a back and
forth dialogue, argument - whatever, that tells a story worth reading
and my experience has been that web sites and news groups aren't going
to produce what I'm looking for. As to the idea of setting up my own
web site and waiting for potential contributors to trickle in - again,
I have close associates and relatives with web sites and to get 
visitors, let alone the right kind of visitors, is akin to pulling
teeth wiothout an anasthetic. I'm in my seventies and by the time I
found enough contributions in this fashion, my descendants would be
ghost writing the book. Just for the heck of it - if Google allows -
here's a reasonably short and not too serious piece that will probably
be in the book.  Unfortunately, this doesn't pick up graphics or
layout and may be difficult to read in this narrow space but if you
can read it, it's the sort of back and forth stuff - serious or
humorous, that I'm looking for.

FUN AND GAMES WITH THE LITERARY GUILD
November 1988 to May 1989

RANDOM HOUSE INC/DOUBLEDAY

           Beware the Literary Guild my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!

If Lewis Carroll hadn’t died in 1898, the second verse of his famed
Jabberwocky poem might well have been written this way. In fact, he
might have called it LITERGUILDAWOCKY. In 1988, my wife was a member
of the Literary Guild and in 1989 we were  locked in the jaws that
bite, the claws that catch, and it took some literary battling to get
free.

Here’s what happened. I don’t know how it is today, but in those days,
apart from offering book selections, the Literary Guild also had
occasional "special merchandise" offers with prices that sometimes
looked attractive. We responded to one such offer for a five piece
luggage set priced at $59.86, payable in three installments, which we
thought was one heck of a deal. Until it arrived that is and we could
see the reason for the price. $59.86 was all that it was worth - maybe
not even that. It was no kind of luggage that we would ever consider
using and we shipped it back immediately, saying no thanks. We got
what we presumed to be an acknowledgment of the returned merchandise -
a post card which read as follows:

Dear Mrs. Smith:

Thank you for your inquiry.

You will be glad to know that we have taken care of your request.
Please allow time for any necessary actions to be applied to your
account.

Your patience and the opportunity to be of service are appreciated.

Sincerely,

Jennifer McHugh
 
I’m not sure why an item of returned merchandise would be referred to
as an "inquiry" but we figured that this was just their own internal
language. Behemoths often have ways of referring to things in a
different language from the members of the great unwashed.. But then
bills began to arrive. Even though we figured that they were the
result of an internal mix up that might right itself without any
assistance on our part, after a while, we thought we had better
respond - just in case. We had dealt with Behemoths in the past.
                                                                      
                  (undated)
           Dear Literary Guild;

This is getting silly.

The merchandise represented by "past due" installments was inferior
and was returned to you within a day or so of receipt. We assume that
your acknowledgment of "your inquiry" (copy enclosed) was in response
to this return, though how a company with "literary" in its name can
equate "inquiry" with a return is beyond me.

"Debbie-My Life" was paid for 12/27/88. I can’t help it if you take
forever to deposit a check.

"Of Tears and Triumphs," written by my old friends, Bud and Georgia
Photopolos, was paid January 9, 1989.

Please get your act together and stop sending us these silly notices
or you’ll lose a subscriber. As it is, many of your prices are easily
beaten at discount chains, so it wouldn’t take much for us to tell you
goodbye.

                                                         The Smiths

P.S. A class act would list an 800 number to call!!!


In a rational world, you would think that our letter would elicit a
polite response and an apology. Instead, it stirred the wrath of the
Behemoth and  brought the following;

                                                                  

                                                                     
February 1, 1989

Dear Mr. Smith:

As of the above date, your account shows a past due balance.

Please review the statement below. Should you have any questions about
this bill, we would like to hear from you. You may write to the above
address or call our Customer Service Center at 516-294-4000 between
7.30 a.m. and 9.00 p.m. Eastern time.

If the statement is accurate, we will expect to receive your payment
within 10 days. Otherwise, a late fee of $2.00 will be charged to your
account. Please remember that our policy requires payment upon receipt
of your order.

If you recently mailed your payment, thank you. We value your
membership.

Respectfully,

Ruth Shaw
Membership Secretary


And at the bottom of the letter was listed two books that we had
bought and two "past due" installments for the inferior luggage that
we had returned. Don’t you just love the way they write these kinds of
letters? "You lousy, dead beat bum. Pay up or we’ll come to your house
and kidnap your first born. But if you’ve already paid, thanks a heap.
We really think you’re great."

Well, we didn’t like being called lousy deadbeats and we responded to
Ms. Shaw as follows;

                                                                   
February 14, 1989
Ruth Shaw
Membership Secretary
The Literary Guild
501 Franklin Avenue
Garden City, NY 11530                   Re A/C #55 121 513570

Dear Ms. Shaw:

Read this very carefully.

The above listed account, in the name of Mrs. Sharon Smith is hereby
canceled. Any future mail from your organization will be thrown away
unopened.

The reason for our cancellation is explained by the enclosed.

We no longer wish to be irritated by your internal inefficiencies.

                                                              
Cordially.

                                                              Jeff
Smith

Do you think that put an end to this mess? Huh!! Instead, the Literary
Guild took a leaf from MY literary book and sent the following.

 IMPORTANT: READ CAREFULLY
                                                  
                                          February 28. 1989
Dear Mrs. Smith:

We have not received a response to our first letter concerning your
past due           balance. Consequently, a $2.00 late fee charge has
been added to your bill.

Should you have any questions regarding your bill, please contact us
at the above      address or call our Customer Service Center at
516-294-4000 between 7.30 a.m.   and 9.00 p.m. Eastern Time.

If your payment was recently sent, please disregard this notice.
Otherwise, mail your payment today.

Respectfully,

Paul Hagen
Credit Manager

Note that apart from stealing MY line about reading carefully, Mr.
Hagen  did NOT say that he valued my membership, even though he seemed
to be respectful with his signature. I concluded that responding to
his letter would most likely produce the same result as previous
attempts of clarification - more letters from different departments of
the Literary Guild, probably with increasing harshness of tone. I
decided it was time to refer the issue to a higher authority and after
a few inquiring phone calls,  got the name of the PRESIDENT of the
whole ball of Literary Guild wax and penned the following:

                                                                      
 March 7, 1989

James R. McLaughlin.
Doubleday & Company
501 Franklin Avenue
Garden City, NY 11530

Dear Mr. McLaughlin;                          Re: a.c # 55 121 513570

I have been given to understand that you are of the humanoid
persuasion, in contrast to the malfunctioning computers that are
running the Book-of-the-Month division of your company.

As you can see from the enclosed, some of these malfunctioning
machines have adopted human names - Jennifer McHugh, Ruth Shaw and
Paul Hagen to name just three - and have conspired to use the mails to
exceedingly annoy, a crime punishable in most states by permanent
unplugging.

It has now cost me at least a couple of bucks to return the "special
order" merchandise -  75 cents to send you three letters, the cost of
a phone call to Garden City to get your name - and far too much of my
valuable time, all because your computers have loose chips. And now
there’s a hint that a record is being created that will be damaging to
our credit history.

Please have some human attend to this. I’m not even amused at the
Hagen computer’s attempt at humor, acknowledging that I have canceled
the account while compounding the reason for the cancellation. Indeed,
I am getting angry and as Bill Bixby used to say before he changed
into a green monster, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.

Cordially - at least for now

Jeff Smith


That did it - right? I’ll get a personal call from Mr. McLaughlin , a
heartfelt apology and a package of six free books in the very next
mail. In your dreams, unwashed reader. We’re talking serious BEHEMOTH
here…….

                    


                          SERIOUSLY PAST DUE

                                                                      
           March 30, 1989

Dear Mrs. Smith:

This is our third letter to you concerning your long overdue account.
We have tried to extend every courtesy and consideration to you to
help you settle this debt.

We must continue to assume that this debt is accurate and ask for your
immediate payment. If we do not receive your payment, stronger action
will be taken which will affect your credit rating with a national
credit reporting agency.

If payment has recently been sent, thank you. Otherwise, send it
today!

Respectfully, 

Paul Hagen
Credit Manager

I figured O.K. Every time I write a letter to the Literary Guild
trying to straighten things out, it gets worse. It’s like I say I
enjoy listening to the baseball scores. They say green bananas are
better at this time of the year. That’s about the way it was. Trying
to be LOGICAL  with the Literary Guild was like passing through the
looking glass.  I was Alice, Paul Hagen was the Jubjub Bird and  James
McLaughlin was the Frumious Bandersnatch.  There was only one thing
left to do so I did it.  I did nothing!! And sure enough, a whole
month passed and not a word. My new found strategy seemed to be
working.

But then……

                              CREDIT INDEX
                              THE NATIONAL COMPUTER CREDIT FILE

Sharon Smith                                                        
May 1, 1989
XXXXX                                                               
ACCT 55121513570
XXXXXXX

We have received notice from your creditor that your payment is long
overdue. Unless you take action now to settle your account,
information concerning this delinquency will be included in our
national delinquent debtor file. Information from this file will be
reported to any one of the credit granting firms using our service
should they order a credit report on you.

The record of your delinquency will remain in our system for at least
five years unless this debt is paid.

Your credit file will show that you did not settle your

$59.86 DEBT WITH THE LITERARY GUILD.

Enclose this letter, with payment in full today! Use the envelope
provided. If the information stated is inaccurate, contact either your
creditor or us, using this form for comments. Your creditor must
notify us of any change in the status of your credit record. We strive
to maintain accurate credit files and you must realize how very
important it is to protect a most valuable asset…your credit rating.

                                                                  
Sincerely Yours.
                                                                  
Consumer Services
                                                                 
Credit Index

After receiving that letter, I had to do some more detective work. I
couldn’t believe that these letters, demands and threats would
continue to arrive after I’d written and explained everything so
clearly  to the PRESIDENT of the Literary Guild’s parent company
himself. Unless….himself WASN’T himself!! Could I have been given a
bum steer? (I kind of thought I had a touch of food poisoning after my
last detecting foray). So…..

                                                                      
                           May 9, 1989
           Mr. Robert Riger,
          President
          Doubleday & Company
          501 Franklin Avenue
         Garden City, NY 11530
            
          Dear Mr. Riger:

I have just had a conversation with someone in your personnel
department who assures me that you are the president of Doubleday.

I’m not sure I can believe anything I hear from your company, because
a month or so ago, one of your hirelings was assuring me that James
McLaughlin was your president. But if the current information is true,
you’ve got big problems. Your Literary Guild Computers have developed
a serious disease. They are running the company as they see fit and
have cut off ALL communication between your human employees and the
general public.

The enclosed materials should be self explanatory. I have numbered
them sequentially to make it even easier to understand.

I should send you a bill for shipping costs, phone calls, postage,
time wasted and sheer aggravation. I will settle for an apology from
you and from the National Computer Credit File.

                                                          Cordially,

                                                          Jeff Smith
           CC: Paul Hagen
           Credit Index


                                                                    
I put that letter in the mail and then sat down to wait for what I was
pretty sure would be a continuation of the nasty letters demanding
money and threatening to destroy my credit rating. But this time I was
wrong. My letter was read by human eyes and, wonder of wonders,
UNDERSTOOD, as demonstrated below:

              MEMBER SERVICE CENTER

                                                         May 22, 1989
              Mr. Jeff Smith
  XXXXX
  XXXXX

   Dear Mr. Smith:

   Re: Mrs Sharon Smith
                    XXXXXX
                    XXXXXX
                     LITERARY GUILD ACCOUNT # 55 121 513570

Your recent letter to Mr. Robert Riger has been referred to my
attention. Thank you for writing.
        
 I can appreciate both your anger and frustration at receiving billing
statements for merchandise that has been returned. It is regrettable
that this matter was not resolved much earlier, and we are sorry that
you have had to contact us more than once concerning it.

The outstanding charge, $59.86, reflected a September 22, 1988
purchase of a FIVE-PIECE SET OF SASSON LUGGAGE. This merchandise cost
$57.86; in time a $2.00 late fee was assessed, and the total balance
due became $59.86.

You wrote that the LUGGAGE had been returned. We, apparently, had no
record of ever receiving it. The billing, therefore, continued.

You have my complete assurance that this charge has now been removed.
Your account has been canceled and is now clear of all outstanding
charges. Additionally, I have written to the Credit Index to remove
your name, if listed, from their files. A copy of this letter is
enclosed for your review. You may be assured that your credit rating
is completely clear insofar as The Literary Guild is concerned.

We will be happy to reimburse you for all telephone calls and postage
fees that you have incurred in trying to resolve this issue. I am
enclosing a reply envelope addressed to a member of my staff, Mrs.
Caterino. Just send us copies of your phone bills and an approximate
sum for postage, and we’ll refund this amount to you.

We regret that you were given some incorrect information about our
Company recently. Our current President is Mr. Robert Riger, who
joined us May 1st.

Mr. Smith, I can understand your disappointment with The Literary
Guild. I fully agree that this matter should have been resolved much
earlier, and I understand your strong feelings about cancellation of
this membership. Our goal is to always please our members, both with
goods and services. I regret that we fell short of the mark! We do
offer a toll-free assistance number to our members. The number is
800-645-6140, and our lines are operational from 7:30 am to 9:00 pm
Eastern Time. Any time that you have a concern or need assistance,
please feel free to contact us.

We hope you will reconsider your decision as we would welcome the
opportunity to serve you again.

                                              Sincerely,
                                             Russell Sacco
                                            Manager, Membership
Services
                                           THE LITERARY GUILD
           cc: Mr. Robert Riger


I swear that I’ve reproduced Mr. Sacco’s letter exactly as written,
punctuation, capitalization and syntax all as received. After all, the
guy was finally getting the BEHEMOTH off my back. Why would I want him
to look bad?  He had already sent a copy to his new boss which I took
to be a sign, either of  great bravery or total idiocy. Then again,
maybe English wasn’t Robert Riger’s native tongue…

Comments  
Subject: Re: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations?
From: banchan-ga on 13 Nov 2002 08:32 PST
 
check out the stuff about the poor guy and with the blackberries and
pagers from skytel right here on ga!
Subject: Re: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations?
From: banchan-ga on 13 Nov 2002 08:32 PST
 
https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=106649
Subject: Re: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations?
From: ericynot-ga on 14 Nov 2002 20:27 PST
 
Ralph Charell already wrote the book in 1973, and it's quite good.
It's called "How I Turn Ordinary Complaints Into Thousands of Dolllars
- The Diary of a Tough Customer". Rather than just arguing futilely,
Mr. Charrell turned his personal consumer battles into cash. Per the
book's back cover, "'The Guinness Book of World Records' recognizes
Ralph Charell as 'the world's most successful complainer.' ... For
years, Charell has made a hobby of perfecting the techniques that this
book makes available to everyone."

The book is out of print, but there are plenty of used copies
available. I suggest you consult this site:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812816161/qid=1037333795/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-1868850-8905531?v=glance&s=books&n=507846#product-details

Best of luck.
Subject: Re: How do I find consumers who have stories of battles with corporations?
From: grumpus-ga on 15 Nov 2002 08:24 PST
 
To: ericynot-ga I appreciate the effort but the book has NOT already
been written. What I am planning is a collection of stories by and
about individuals who have crossed swords verbally over a specific
issue with a corporation or other kind of business entity or a
government branch over a period of weeks or months and who have a
collection of back and forth regular and/or e-mail correspondence that
is -  emanating from the consumer - , clever, witty, sardonic and a
few other flavors, with responses from the complainee that also run
the gamut from the ridiculous  (form letters that ignore the
complaint) to the more ridiculous (the responder unclear on the
concept). I would write or help write introductions and connective
narrative to each story. My own half a dozen or so stories, run a
total of around 30,000 words and one of them was so nutty that I used
the correspondence as the basis for a humorous piece about a fictional
game called Hertzopoly. (No points for guessing the involved
corporation)  I'm looking to collect maybe 30 to 50 additional stories
from other people for a book that might run anywhere from 100,000 to
200,000 words. There are indeed books about or consisting of complaint
letters. I've seen most of them. None are like the idea I have in
mind.

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