What is and/or was the Oblative case and/or tense in the Greek and/or
Ancient Greek language?  How can I learn more about the oblative?

---

Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 21 Nov 2002 08:17 PST

Are you sure that the word is "oblative?"  It does not appear to be a
grammatical term.  However,"ablative" is a designation for a case used
in Greek grammar, as well as Latin and later Indo-European languages.

markj-ga

---

Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 21 Nov 2002 08:24 PST

So as not to mislead you, I should point out that the "ablative" case
has apparently not survived in classical or modern Greek, either.

markj

You mean oblique, rather than oblative.

Oblique forms are those inflected forms other than the most
fundamental case or tense. Nouns in cases other than the Nominative or
Vocative, which are identical, are in an oblique case. Verbs that are
in a form other than the present indicative are oblique. The original
classification was Aristotle's, but later grammarians restricted the
usage to nouns.

See the Oxford English Dictionary under CASE, 9 Grammar.

Definition of oblique cases in Greek:

http://www.ntgreek.net/lesson13.htm

In Latin:

http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.338.html

http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.35.html#g

The *ablative* case is a catch-all in Latin, but not in Greek, which
has only Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, and Vocative.
Genitive, Dative, and Accusative are oblique cases in  Greek.

hlabadie-ga

It was a great answer, but I prefer to call it a "one-star", just
because I don't like more than one star.  The last part of the answer
was the best part of the answer.  My tip is for TEZ

Hello droveoni75in,

You're definitely looking for a case, not a tense.  And I think I have
found an online text which can give you the further information you
need: _Learning Biblical Koine Greek_
  http://cranfordville.com/classes/gkgrm00.html


In modern English it is called the ablative case, not the oblative. 
(However, you may find it written as "oblative" in older English
variants, most famously in Joyce's _Finnegan's Wake_: 
http://www.trentu.ca/jjoyce/fw-268.htm)

The ablative case is associated with sources of movement/moving away
(I came back FROM SCHOOL).  The ablative exists as an independent case
in Latin, but Ancient Greek lost the ablative (along with the locative
and instrumental) as a fully independent case, its functions being
absorbed by the dative and genitive cases.  Nevertheless, teachers of
Greek sometimes describe the case of a noun as 'ablative' to identify
that the noun is a source of movement.

Finally, the "ablative absolute" is a Latin construction also commonly
found in Ancient Greek, where it is called the "genitive absolute". 
Students of both languages sometimes call it the ablative absolute in
the context of Ancient Greek, and even linguists do this occasionally
(e.g., Sluiter, I., 2000. 'Seven Grammarians on the Ablative
Absolute', Historiographia Linguistica 27.2/3, 381-416.).


Further resources:

  A good history of case development in various Indo-European
languages, including Latin and Ancient Greek:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/syntax-text/550/html/ch6.html

  An interesting, informal contrast between the 8-case and 5-case
systems of describing Ancient Greek:
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/1999-12/34343.html

  An online bibliography of Ancient Greek, which includes the Sluiter
article: http://www.let.uu.nl/hist/goac/bgl/

  A page devoted to the genitive absolute, and why it is common in
Greek:  http://www.latin-uk-online.com/heuix/genitiveabsolute.html


Regards,
  tez-ga