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Q: a painting in Prague. ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: a painting in Prague.
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Visual Arts
Asked by: omy-ga
List Price: $100.00
Posted: 22 Nov 2002 15:20 PST
Expires: 22 Dec 2002 15:20 PST
Question ID: 112832
information about a painting,Man of Sorrows between Two Angels. 
Origins in the Church of the Virgin Mary before Tyn in Prague around
1470 during the bishopric of the Hussite Bishop, Jan of Rokycany.  I
am trying to find out whether there is any connection between the
Hussites and the style of this painting. The painting is now hanging
in the St.Agnes Cloister, on loan fro the Prague Municipal Museum.

Request for Question Clarification by legolas-ga on 22 Nov 2002 19:20 PST
Can you confirm that this is the picture you were thinking of?

http://www.kfki.hu/keptar/tours/masterms/esorrow.html

Request for Question Clarification by legolas-ga on 22 Nov 2002 19:22 PST
oops! wrong picture.. I found the right one though!  Matches the
pedigree perfectly.. Just working on your answer now!

Request for Question Clarification by legolas-ga on 22 Nov 2002 22:43 PST
Sorry. I wasn't able to answer your question at this point.. I will keep looking!

Request for Question Clarification by digsalot-ga on 23 Nov 2002 12:49 PST
Due to the NATO meeting, St Agnes Cloister (former convent) has been
closed from Nov. 19th through yesterday.  I don't know how much email
they have piled up and mine is probably in there someplace.  It seems
even the staff was prevented from entering the building.

They will be publishing a thumbnailed catalog online before the end of
the year which will make researching that institution much easier.

I cannot answer about the specific painting you are referring to but
the subject of the image became popular in both the Czech and Slovak
communities after the Hussite Church came into being.  Before
converting to another faith, I was raised in the Czechoslovakian
Byzantine Rite Church (a sub-division of the Ukrainan Church ) and the
icons and paintings of the "Man of Sorrows" were used in both Eastern
and Western Rite Churches to symbolize Christ's sorrow at the "torn"
fabric of His Church.  The image is both a political and religious
statement dealing with the Hussite reform.

As for as the religious statement,  one theory says these paintings
are based on Isa. 53:3, known as the "suffering servant" passage: "He
had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his
appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by
men... a man of sorrows... like one from whom men hide their faces..."
 And another says, and it is just a believable: "He is the one who
gazes at us, from painting after painting, incapable of artifice or
manipulation, as he shows us what our sins did to Him, and to one
another."

As far as change in style, I do not understand if you mean a change in
"technique" or a change in the symbolism?  In as much that every
aspect of a painting of the time carried secondary symbolic meaning in
the background, there could have been changes in the 'background
items' from previous versions.  Every thing from a flower, piece of
fruit, book, to furnishings in the background of a painting was heavy
with meaning and symbolism.

When, or if, I hear back from the St. Agnes Cloister museum, we might
narrow down an answer.  I would have to see that exact painting to
provide a full answer.


cheers
digsalot

Request for Question Clarification by hedgie-ga on 24 Nov 2002 06:55 PST
Hello Omy

           This is a very specific question and it would help us if
 you could elaborate few points:

 1) When you say 'Hussite influences', you mean not just Ultraquists,
but also
    later branches, such as Unita Fratrum, .. right?
 
 2) Are documents and websites in Czech of use, or do you need
English-Only
    references.

 3) I assume, based on your formulation, that you are familiar with
general history of that period and so that does not have to be
included in the answer.
Is  that correct? 

     It could take a week ot two to gather the material for a reponse,
but
 I will try if you could provide the clarification.

 hedgie
 yi

Clarification of Question by omy-ga on 27 Nov 2002 13:18 PST
I do not know as much about the period or about Czech art as my
question might imply.  The information came from the sign 
accompanying  the picture.  I do know a little about the Hussites.
I was going through the St.Agnes Convent when this picture caught my
attention.  In it Christ looked dazed and confused, almost as though
he had been punched in the stomach.  I was brought up a Roman Catholic
and have seen many representations of the Crucificion.  Never have I
seen a Christ looking like this.  The reason I wondered about the
Hussite connection is  that the picture was said to have most likely
been donated to the main Ultraquist  cathedral in Prague at the time
when it was managed by the theologically moderate archbishop Jan of
Rokycany.
I wonder if there is a connection between his being theologically
moderate and the emotional tenor of the picture.
Alas, I do not read Czech, but I could probably make out something in
Spanish, Italian or French.

Request for Question Clarification by hedgie-ga on 09 Dec 2002 21:37 PST
Hello again Omy

           I have learned quite a bit about the Christian art of that
time,
 at that place.
             Prague and Paris were center if late ghotic style called
 'krasny sloh' in Czech traqnslated as 'International Ghotic Style' to
English.
 "..A style of painting and sculpture dominant in W Europe
             between about 1375 and 1425. Originating in France and
             Burgundy, it later spread to Italy, Bohemia, and other
             German states. International gothic retained the figure
             stylizations of gothic but introduced naturalism in the
             depiction of landscape, animals, and costume "
http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=506655&secid=.-&hh=1

 That includes giving a 'real expression' to painting and statues,
 apparent in quite a few items of this remakable exhibit. But even
 in that context, 'your' painting stands out as unique.

Style is part of transition to Renaissance which started with Giotto
http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=143891&secid=.-&hh=1
and evolved into the  Bohemian School so that
  " ..In the generation after his (Giottos) death he
             had an overwhelming influence on Florentine painting; it
             declined with the growth of International Gothic, but his
             work was later an inspiration to Masaccio, and even to
             Michelangelo..." 
http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=143020
   
 
 I got an opinion of a Art Historian familiar with this period and
have
 references providing historical context of this very unique period in
 the developement of christianity. 
 However, Your specific question cannot be answered with certainty.
 The name of the artist is not known. That is not unusual for that
period. For example, important artist of that era is known only as
'Master of the Trebon Altar' and we know nothing of his life.

  Some guesses, based on the Eucharist meaning of the painting, 
depiction of
Holy Grail and  Ultraquist liturgy practiced at the Church of out 
Lady before
Tyn at that time can be made.

 So, it is not clear how to apply Google policy in this case: When
full answer
 cannot be given, information should be given as comments. On the
other hand,
 I think that I can summarise all information there is and will be
available.

(Printing of the catalog was delayed  due floods and  monetary
problems,
 but even when it is published, it will not have more about this
artist and the painting then what we know now).

 So, please, ler me know if you would like to accept general
information,
 historical context with guesses as an answer to your google question.

  If so I will elaborate the historical context a bit more.
  Else, thanks for pointing out this remarkable exhibit and painting.

 Hedgie

Clarification of Question by omy-ga on 11 Dec 2002 14:33 PST
hedgie-ga  - in answer to your question about payment.  Yes, I will
pay.  also I would like to add a$10 tip.  I will take you up on your
offer to add more about the period.  thanks
Answer  
Subject: Re: a painting in Prague.
Answered By: hedgie-ga on 19 Dec 2002 03:40 PST
 
Was  the unususal painting

                   "Trpitel na mezi dvema andeli"
                (Man of Sorrow Between two Angels)

 influenced by the "Moderate Theology" of the Hussite  bishop Jan z
Rokycan ?

This painting is currently part of exhibit in
 Anezsky Klaster (St. Agnes's convent) in Prague
http://www.geocities.com/air0drom/aneg.html

  According to a Czech art historian of my acquaintance,
  -------------------------------------------------------------\
   the prevailing style at that time and place  was
 International Gothic style...

            " With Stefano da Zevio and Pisanello the International
Gothic reached its
             most ornate and flamboyant. In Bohemia the style is
             apparent in the Trebon Altarpiece (NG, Prague, c. 1390;
see
             bohemian school). It spread to the Rhineland towns in the
             early 15th century"
...
 "The two leading art centers of the period were Paris and Prague, 
and from there
this style spread to other parts of Europe.
 Artists (Master Bondol in Paris, Theoderic in Prague and Bertram in
Hamburg)
 endeavoured to convey a feeling of mass and space. They gave a more
accurate
  and less biased image of reality, their figures becoming heavier,
 stockier and more individual, the forms being characterized by a soft
 modelling without contours, so that their pictures were
  accented with dramatic emphasis"
http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/tours/gothic/characte.html

An early member of the school was architect  Peter Parler
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/p/parler/selfport.html
famous as the designer of the St. Vitus Cathedral within the Prague
Castle complex.
http://www.sweb.cz/praguetour/katedr.jpg
taken from this site:
http://www.sweb.cz/praguetour/
Parler is also known for the Charles Bridge Tower
http://www.andel3w.dk/prague/english/pragt07.htm

Parler was associated with Tynska Skola
 (the Latin shool associated with the 'Marie before Tyn' church
 in Prague's Old Town Square)
where also Master Walter (died 1354) lectured at the School of Art
 (translated  from)
http://www.tynska.cuni.cz/cesky/historie.html)

   The influence  of the Hussites on the visual art of the period,
   according to my art historian consultant, was purely destructive.
   Seeking return to the 'teaching of the bible' they did not care for
   'graven images'. They looted and burned the churches and
monasteries,
    and they did not develop their own "school" of painting.

  In spite of the  many art treasures destroyed
 during the religious wars of the 15th century, however, Bohemia still
has a large
 number of paintings in this International Gothic style.

Many examples are paintings of  the infant Jesus in arms of "beautiful
madonnas"
(in czech: malby Jeziska v naruci "krasnych madon" jako skutecneho
ditete. ...)
can be found in churches and galleries in Bohemia...
www.ricany.cz/org/farnost/cz/ceska/litur/vanoce/rodina.htm

     -----------------------------------------------------/

 However, the short answer abover does not convey the ferment of the
time, nor
explains the museum's carefully worded caption at the exhibit: "It is
not
ruled out" that it was donated to Our Lady Before Tyn Church
 where the "moderate" Hussite bishop Jan z Roycan preached.

 Hussites had profound influence on life in the Czech lands,
 and some of the ideas they brought forward persisted and flourished.
At the
very least, the upheavals and the fervor of the movement shook the
 established order and may have enabled painters to adopt new models
and symbols.

 A look at the history is necessary to understand
    what is meant by the "moderate" branch
   of the Hussite movement and the significance to the Hussites
   of the Chalice, which is shown in this painting.

On some Husite church towers, the chalice replaces the simple
cross of Roman Catholics or the double cross of the Eastern Orthodox
church.

 According to the legend of the Holy Grail the chalice
 capturing the blood of Christ is the same cup
 which Christ used during the Last Supper
http://www.grailchurch.org/pentecost2002.htm
and
gallery.euroweb.hu/ html/j/juanes/

he Biblical quote on the frame of the painting in question is from
bible.

 According to John  6:30. Christ said:

"I am the bread of life; whoever comes
to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never
thirst."

"For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who
eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John
6:53-56)
http://www.catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp

  In some paintings the angels hold the chalice,
  believed to be the same cup the Christ used during the Last Supper,
 to catch the blood of  Christ at the Crucifixion.
  In this painting, the angels look on, as Christ
  Himself holds  the cup.

  This could be the 'Cup of Suffering"   ---
drinking the dregs of the wrath of God upon mankind's sin.
Study these verses.
a . Jh 1:29
b. II Cor. 5:21 ..
http://www.watke.org/resources/The%20CupofSuffering.html

  Christ is not on the cross, but levitating between the two angels,
in vision of the future, vision of ascension

Cgrist expression may pointed to this 'other cup' -
   But there is also another cup on the table, a cup that is very near
the Master's hand, a cup which we very frequently forget or ignore. It
is a bitter cup,
the cup of the Lord's sufferings. "Are ye able to drink of the cup
that I drink of?
http://www.ccel.org/j/jowett/calvary/calv04.htm

  In this interpretation, .. Christ goes through what is known as the
agony of
   the Garden of Gethsemane when He says, "Father, if it is Your will,
remove this cup from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be
done."16 It
   signifies the surrender of the human to the divine. The
Transfiguration integrates God and Man. They will no longer exist as
separate. It is at
   this initiation that you the disciple become more than merely
human..."
http://www.churchoftruth.org/articles/FiveInitiations.html


            ".So then, what was the cup? We've seen that the cup was
neither physical pain or mental distress, but rather it was the
spiritual agony of first bearing the sins of the
              world and secondly enduring the judgement of those sins.
 We find in the Old Testament that the Lord's "cup" was a symbol of
wrath.a."
http://users.bigpond.net.au/joeflorence/remsuffdeath.html

  The Cup capturing the blood of Christ can be also the cup present at
the
Last supper.

In the legend of the Holy Grail, it is also believed that Moldavite
 was the green stone in the Holy Grail.
Moldavites http://camelot.celtic-twilight.com/infopedia/g/grail_gems.htm
and
http://www.taiwanfm.com.tw/mineral/moldainfor.htm

 Moldavites are only found near Prague, named after the river Vltava
(older Celtic
 name meaning 'Wild Water') translated to German and English as
Moldau).
 That, of course, is a coincidence.
  But the symbolism of the Chalice in the Czech lands is
 profound:

 Why did the Husite/ Ultraquist belief develop in this particular part
of Europe?
 Christian influence came to Czech Lands from the both sides, East and
West.
http://archiv.radio.cz/history/index.html

The split of the original church into Orthodox and Catholic happened
in 1054 AD. Both splinters trace their bishops back to the apostles.
http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/about.html

 To this day, in spite of some efforts, that split is not healed:
http://www.syrianorthodoxchurch.org/news/


 "..in the Orthodox Church both laity and clergy always receive
Communion of
  both the Body and Blood of Christ."
  http://www.orthodoxworld.ru/english/tainstva/4/

In the medivial Catholic church,  only priests drank the wine.

Some believe the miracle of transubstantiation does not happen unless
both substances are present. Some do not  believe it ever  happens.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05584a.htm
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Homiletic/Jan98/transubstantiation.html


In the Husite movement, it became a central belief that the laity
 should participate fully in the Eucharist by partaking of both bread
and wine,
 referred to as Communion "in both kinds."

The St. Martin in the Wall Church hosted the  first Ultraquist mass
(in both kinds)in 1414
   http://www.martinvezdi.cz/

The initiative for this was based on the research of Jakoubek ze
Stribra
 AFTER Hus was jailed.
Jan Hus himself had not advocated this or served Communion this way,
but he
he approved the practice, common in the Eastern Orthodox Church,
from the dungeon where he was jailed before he was burned at the
stake.
http://www.libri.cz/databaze/dejiny/text/t21.html

All branches of the Hussite movement adopted the practice and were
sometime
called Chalicists (Kalisnici, in Czech).

Both streams,  Radicals and Moderates,  had new ideas,  both were
seeking a
 return to the original teachings of Christ,
 and both wanted to allow people to choose which church (Catholic or
Hussite)
  to attend. During this time Catholic and Hussite Churches
coexisted  in the same cities, being alternately tolerated and
condemned by the
pope, as the fortunes of wars and course of negotiations was changing.

The main difference between the two main Hussite streams,
the so-called Moderates (also called Calixtines or Ultraquists or
Prague Party)
and the Radicals (The Taborites) was as follows:

	 The radicals sought to translate their theories
into reality; they preached the sufcientia legis Christi-- only the
divine law (i.e., the Bible) is the rule and canon for man,
not only in ecclesiastical matters, but also in political and civil
matters.
They rejected therefore, as early as 1416, everything that had no
basis
in the Bible, such as the adoration of saints,  images,...
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussite
 The  radicals, Taborites built the city of Tabor, south of Prague
http://www.tabor.cz/1ja/1historie/70.htm
 named after the  biblical  mountain
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/san/TAB10old.html
 In 1420 Mikuláı z Pelhĝimova was  ELECTED bishop in Tabor and  a
radical
 program was declared in  12 articles.


	The Moderates wanted to reconcile with the Catholic church and
wanted the Pope to accept and ordain their bishop, Jan of Rokycany.
 They  issued porgrams, tractats and reached numerous  compromises,
 such as Compactata, accepted by pope at one time.

 Their program, expressed in The Four Articles of Prague, asked for:

   (1) Freedom in preaching;
   (2) Communion in both kinds;
   (3) Reduction of the clergy to apostolic poverty;
   (4) Severe punishment of all open sins.

The views of the moderate Hussites were represented at the university
and
among the citizens of Prague; therefore they were called the Prague
party.
They were also called Calixtines or Utraquists, because they
emphasized
the second article of the four, and the chalice became their emblem.
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussite

NOTE: Much later, influenced by the Hussites, the Chalice was accepted
as symbol of
 several other religions, e.g. Unitatrians.
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=lang_cs&ie=UTF-8&inlang=pl&safe=off&q=church+chalice&spell=1


The church Chram Matky Bozi pred Tynem (Church of Our Lady before Tyn)
was the main Ultraquist Church in Prague at that time.
http://www.motylek.com/es/place.asp?cat=3&subcat=3&id=7
This is the church where the painting in question is thought to have
been hung.

From 1435 when they elected Rokycana as their bishop until 1451, the
Moderates
negotiated with Rome to have him ordained as archbishop, so as to be
part of
the apostolic succession and thus legitimize their movement within the
Catholic
church. When they lost hope for this in 1451, the  Moderates
established
contacts with the Orthodox Church to have Bishop Jan of Rokycany
ordained.
 The fall of Constatinopole to the Muslims prevented this option.
 Thus the intolerance of  Rome, combined with this accident of
history,
 forced on them the protestant practice in which churches elect their
leaders.
http://www.libri.cz/databaze/dejiny/text/t27.html

In  1457 Rokycana died and  M. Václav Koranda Jr. was elected bishop.

At this point, the Utraquists had retained hardly anything of the
doctrines of Hus except
communion in both kinds. In 1462 Pope Pius II. declared the Compactata
null and
void, prohibited communion in both kinds, and acknowledged George
 Podebrad as king under the condition that he would promise
an unconditional harmony with the Roman Church.

The same year Rokycana died, "brother  Rehor" founded a new church,
 today called the Moravian Church, based on Hussitism, fundamentalist
 teachings of Chelcisky, influenced by the Waldesians or Picards.
It rejected all violence, including that of the of the  Taborites, and
it no longer hoped for, or cared  to reach, acceptance by Rome.
http://www.enter.net/~smschlack/
They chose their archbishops independently of Rome.
http://www.moravian.org/history/
http://www.historicist.com/history/preref.htm

Thus the Apostolic Succession
 http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Succession.asp
was broken in this branch of the Hussite movement, and
 perhaps at that moment the first  protestant church was born.
 The name "Protestant" however came later, in 1529, when "adherents of
the new Evangel"
protested  toleration of Catholics in some German Lands
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm

 While the German lands still allowed both Catholics and Lutherans to
worship in
 way determined by their feudal masters, all religious
  freedom in Bohemia was supressed.
  Protestants, including Ultraquists and the Moravian
and Czech Brethren, had to convert back to Catholicism or emigrate.
http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Voice/History.Protestant.v1.b3.html#CHAPTER
19
 Some Hussites left for Poland, some converted, found refuge in
Germany and later sailed to
 the New World.
     In Prague, Baroque became the  style of architecture, and visual
arts continued
their interrupted development, as described by the Catholic art
historian above.

  It was not until 1781, that some religious tolerance  was
re-established in the Czech Lands.
http://www.bartleby.com/65/jo/Joseph2.html



    In conclusion, then

 considering this historical millieu, we suspect
  that this painting is work of the unknown artist, who has both
  Catholic affinity to the visual arts and a Hussite preference for
the
   ultraquist liturgy, artist who wanted to represent both elements of
the Eucharist,
   body and blood, in the same painting.

  Accccording to this conclusion Hussite Theology did influence the
 composition  of this masterpiece, made at a unique branching
point in the history of Christanity, when for a short time,
 the Catholic and Protestant churches coexisted in one city, ruled by
same king.

 With the final  victory of counter-reformation and of the Hapsburgs
 this special conditions in Prague disappeared. That may explain the
uniqness
 of this painting.


         Search Strategy:
                        A large part of the search was conducted off
line:
                        a search of art history books, querying
experts,a
                        visit to the museum.
                        Some materials came from  websites in the
Czech language,
                       such as
http://www.libri.cz/databaze/dejiny/
                       which provides a nearly month by month record
of the era.
         Other terms were:
                         Ultraquists, Tabor*, Chalice*, Eucharist,
Hus*,
                         Itnernational Gothic, Giotto, Rokycan*,
Zizka,
                         and other terms used in the text.
Comments  
Subject: Re: a painting in Prague.
From: hedgie-ga on 29 Nov 2002 04:51 PST
 
Omy,

        Thanks for the clarification. It will help  me in the search and 
 formulation of the answer.
 
 In the meantime you may want to read a bit about that era:
 
http://www.hedgehog-review.com/ttt/HusI.html

  The word 'moderate' may be misleading. Rokycana was moderate relative
to even more radical Taborites. But the whole movement was the cradle of the
protestant reformation.  Hus was a good Catholic (even though Catholic
Church still has some problems seeing that :-) but after his death whole
region erupted in revolt.  One guess is  that perhaps painter was inspired
by martyrdom of Jan Hus and projected that on the traditional thema. Hus's
martyrdom 'in the hands of anti-christ' as it was percieved by masses, had
enormous emotional impact  on the whole nation and would affect any 
deeply religoius artist.

 The end result, the (Czech and Moravian)
Brethren made a radical departure from medivial splendor of the church,
as you can see today e.g. in Betlehem PA (Moravian Church Museum) - it looks
almost Amish...  So I would expect the art would change as well, as long 
as there was any left.  
I am now looking for an expert response to your querry off-line. 
There is little on line on this specific topic at this time.

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