I am looking to bottle some wine in new bottles to give them as gifts
in the coming festive season. In each bottle I would like to enclose a
message- a message that would not contaminate the wine. My intention
is to write the messages on paper, then plastic laminate, following by
dipping in a sterilizing solution prior to inserting in the bottle.

My question: Is there a 'proven' method of putting bacteria free
messages in bottles of wine?

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Clarification of Question by brudenell-ga on 24 Nov 2002 16:49 PST

My revised question: Is there a 'proven' method of putting bacteria
free
  messages in bottles of wine or in little glass vials in bottles of
wine? (thanks to pinkfreud-ga)

Brudenell,

I am delighted that you've asked me to officially "answer" your
question, after some fascinating back-and-forth exchanges. And I thank
you for describing me as "wise."

The "message in a bottle" awash in a sea of wine is sure to be
memorable! I can envision the occasion as the recipients realize that
there is a little something extra inside, in addition to the liquid
cheer.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

Best wishes,
pinkfreud

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Clarification of Answer by pinkfreud-ga on 29 Nov 2002 20:09 PST

Many thanks for the five-star rating and for the generous tip!

~pinkfreud

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Request for Answer Clarification by brudenell-ga on 02 Dec 2002 10:25 PST

The message in a bottle is complete. To view a couple of images please
see: http://ca.photos.yahoo.com/onthebrudenell

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Clarification of Answer by pinkfreud-ga on 10 Dec 2002 18:00 PST

I thought of this thread when I learned today that an old friend is
planning to put a marriage proposal into a little glass vial that will
be placed within a bottle of wine at a New Year's celebration. Also in
the bottle: an engagement ring embedded in a block of wax. (This must
be a rather wide-mouthed bottle, or possibly my friend's fiancee has
fingers the size of toothpicks.)

If this sort of thing becomes popular, I wouldn't be surprised if some
enterprising winemaker may begin to offer a kit especially designed
for the inclusion of small items in wine bottles.

And to think that it all started here, on Google Answers! :-)

~Pink

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Request for Answer Clarification by brudenell-ga on 11 Dec 2002 07:08 PST

Hello pinkfreud-ga

Thanks for the post.

The system of putting messages in the bottle is working very well.
Please caution your friend about the seal on the vial. This is very
important as some of mine (not many) leaked in some wine. I would
extra seal in future with some Saran Wrap over the end of the vial
prior to screwing on the cap- as a little extra insurance.

All in all this has been alot of fun and a big hit with the
recepients. Hope your friend has a great proposal event!

Best regards

Brudenell

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Clarification of Answer by pinkfreud-ga on 12 Dec 2002 13:51 PST

Regarding the problem of leakage, my friend who is planning the
marriage-proposal-in-a-bottle has done some testing, and he's going to
dip the cork end of the vial in paraffin wax to seal it. Since the
engagement ring is also embedded in wax, I would not be surprised if
the wine ends up tasting a bit waxy. But, of course, the actual
drinking of the wine is a rather secondary matter in this case!

Hello  pinkfreud-ga! Your comment led to the solution that I was
seeking and I am also grateful for the discussion that followed.
Tomorrow night the "messages in bottles" are being presented. This
should be a fun kick off for the upcoming festive season and I thank
you and the other respondents for being a part of it. I hope you have
a fun festive season too!

Instead of laminating your message, have you considered putting the
paper with theh message inside a tiny glass vial, then sealing and
sterilizing the vial and placing it inside the wine bottle? A bottle
within a bottle. This sounds intriguing to me.

I would agree with pinkfreud's inventive suggestion.
Not only does it add a touch of elegance, but it
precludes the possibility that the plastic laminate
will interact unfavorably with the wine.

I make homemade mead, or honey-wine, and have learned
not to process or store the wine in plastic due to 
the potential for interaction.

Thank you pinkfreud and sublime1 for your comments! A tiny glass vial
is indeed a classy, glassy idea...now where to find the new vials?

I appreciate your assistance

Brudenell

>> now where to find the new vials? <<

Maybe a chemistry supply house? Or why not contact a glassmaker? A
glassmaker could seal up your vials after the message is placed
inside. No stopper ... just glass. That would be great if the message
is oriented inside the vial so it can be read without opening, or
breaking, the vial.

Small glass vials are often available at hobby and crafts supply
stores. People (like me) who make beaded jewelry use mini-sized glass
vials to hold seed beads.

It would be hard to read a message that was inside a glass vial
without getting the vial out (difficult) or breking the bottle (not
classy).

Instead, why don't you try staining a piece of glass, say a glass rod,
steralizing it, and putting it in the bottle. Itwill be more easity
read then paper,remail sterile, and look classy while still in the
bottle. Assuming, of course, that you are using a clear bottle.

highroute-ga, pinkfreud-ga & bobtherat-ga,

Thanks again GA team! I am getting attached to this vial idea. If I
can be sure that there will be no contamination, I am going to give it
a try. Maybe if I dip each sealed vial in a sodium sulfate solution
(?) it should work. As for reading the message, my preference is to
deliberately have the note unreadable from outside the bottle because
I am going to have some extra gifts linked to 5 or so random wine
bottles (I am giving the wine to a group). To help you visualize the
bottle that I am using is a clear bottle, shaped like a violin, to be
filled with a custom made, amber coloured apple/ maple cider by a
local Prince Edward Island winery. The bottles are being presented in
a venue where no one is allowed to open their bottle on the premises.
The note in the bottle will have everyone quessing who the additional
winners are...

All of the comments are sincerely appreciated

Brudenell

brudenell,

if u are firm on the glass vial idea, then there is no issue of
sterilization problem as you can use the same process that you
sterilize the wine bottle, i.e. put the message in a vial (sealed)
then put vial in bottle then you sterilize bottle (with vial inside)
then you proceed to put in wine and then seal.

For non-commercial sterilization, a steam bath would kill most of the
germs in the atmosphere and on the glass surfaces.

Perhaps you could place your message in this sterilizable Cryo Tube 

CryoTubes
http://www.nuncbrand.com/docs/doc_Products_CryoTubes_CryoLineSystem.asp?frame=content

You must also consider the possiblity of breakage. If this ever
happens you could be facing a costly recall of ALL your products. If
you could develop a means of attaching the top tube to the bottom of
the cap or cork, this would not only allow for easy extraction of the
message, but eliminate any possibility that the tube might break
inside the bottle during handeling. Perhaps you could contact bottling
companies to see if they could manufacture such a thing for you
specifically for this use.

Good luck;
tutuzdad-ga

Hello unstable-ga & tutuzdad-ga

Thanks you for your comments.

I am proceeding on the vial idea and have sourced some Pyrex test
tubes with caps at a local hospital lab. The sterilization will be
fairly straightforward. With regards to breakage I am going to insert
the test tube cap down. Although I haven't yet had a chance to
experiment, I suspect that it will float and that there will be no
glass to glass impact as the bottom of the tube will only touch the
cork.

Your assistance is very much appreciated.

Regards

Brudenell

Experiment successful! The vial worked.

It had to be in the bottle with the cap down. Tried it also with the
cap up and disaster occurred. Once the cork was forced into the bottle
the added internal pressure caused air to seep out of the 'cap up'
floating vial. It sank! and worse wine seeped in. In the end I opted
for test tube bottom up and all worked fine. Now how do we get wise
PINKFREUD-GA to post an answer as that is where the credit is due?
Thanks everyone for your interest.

Best regards

Brudenell

I have summoned PINK for you. Please stand by.

tutuzdad-ga

Just my 2 cents worth of theory...

You need to sterilize the vial. Not sanitize (as in chemicals) but
sterilize as in pressurized steam, or boiling water bath. As, no
doubt, your glass bottles will be sterilized prior to being filled. If
there is any air in your vial, it will heat up when you sterilize the
vial. Air that is heated expands. If there is no way for the expanding
air to escape, then the vial will go boom (or at least, I think it
should...) To give you an example of what I'm talking about, think
about home-made jam. The jars are sterilized, as are the lids. The
lids have a layer of rubbery sealing compound around where they will
contact the glass of the jar. After the jam is ladled into the sterile
jar, the lid (which is a flat piece of metal with the sealing
compound) is placed on the jar, and a scew band (basically a jar lid
with no flat part, just the outer ring) is screwed on loosely over the
flat lid. The completed jar is then placed back in the water that the
jar was sterilized in. It is brought to a boil, and boiled long enough
for the contents of the jar to reach boiling temperature. This kills
any leftover bacteria, but also causes the air at the top of the jar
to expand and bubble out of the jar out of the loosely fit lid. When
the air is exhausted, the water pressure keeps the lid on. When the
jar is removed and cooled, the air pressure is pushing the lid down
(becuase it is greater then the pressure in the jar.) Thus, a vacuum
seal.

I'm not sure you'll be able to sterilize you vial without it blowing.
Also, the "stopper" would need some sort of sealing compound in order
to ensure a proper seal and prevent leakage once the vial is
sterilized.

Another factor is how well will the stopper/seal hold up while
submerged, for the length of time before it is removed from the wine?

My thought was putting your message in a solid block of glass. (Think
along the lines of the coloured parts of a marble.)

That would eliminate the air pressure problem.

Anotehr option would be an engraved piece of metal such as stainless
steel.

Thanks tutuzdad-ga!

sparky4ca-ga your comments are appreciated. The cleaning of the Pyrex
test tubes is being done with potassium meta bi sulphate. This is the
same solution that is used by wineries to cleanse the bottles and a
little is added to the actual wine to ensure stalility. I do not
anticipate long term occupation by the test tubes in the bottles.
Within a beautiful and unusual bottle and floating in the special
fortified liquer (15% alcohol) each tube has a lottery ticket attached
to a Christmas greeting. A number of the greetings also have an
'instant win' cash prize. Recipients unfortunately cannot open the
bottle at the Christmas party, where they will pick their own bottle,
due to 'house' rules. Now I wonder how many will remain unopened by
Boxing Day?

Cool idea. How about posting a link to a picture of one of the
finished vials, and one of the finished bottles?

I understand now why staining a glass rod, or encasing the message in
solid glass wouldn't have worked.

Also, thanks for the info on the sterilizing. I never knew that they
did wine that way.

Enjoy the party!

Thank you for your kind words sparky4ca-ga

The party was a great success. I will gladly post a photo of the
bottle once I can figure out where I can do so at minimal cost.

Brudenell

The message in a bottle is complete. To view a couple of images please
see: http://ca.photos.yahoo.com/onthebrudenell

Thanks for the pics. That is totally awesome looking. I totally
visualized it wrong.

Nice touch with the maple leaf.

sparky4ca-ga    (ca as in .ca type abbreviation)