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Q: Our site is being filtered from Google search results. ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Our site is being filtered from Google search results.
Category: Sports and Recreation > Games
Asked by: larry218-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 29 Nov 2002 07:55 PST
Expires: 29 Dec 2002 07:55 PST
Question ID: 116365
My company has set up a web site.  The base URL of the site is
http://www.ledgaming.com

The site is for the promotion of our 3 slot machines which are
manufactured by IGT and placed in casinos where gambling is legal. 
The site also references our game sites
http://www.cashkingcheckers.com and http://www.multistrikepoker.com

The site has been up since September and is linked to from several
pages on the web, many of which show up in searches for our game
titles.  During the 2 months that it has been operational, none of our
pages have shown up in any kind of Google search that I have tried. 
That is, until last night when magically and happily they all
appeared.

I checked again this morning (11/29) and I can no longer get any of
our pages to come up with any search (including a few obscure ones
that were coming back before such as a search on
cashkingcheckers.com).

I would appreciate it if someone could explain why our site is
apparently being filtered from Google search results.  Our games are
in wide circulation and are of interest to a measurable part of your
client base.  In addition to information on the games our site offers
fully operational demonstration versions (using Shockwave) to allow
people to play and understand these games.  These are refined well
developed programs that are an asset to the web.

We also think it would be useful for both our company and Google
clients if we could be listed in your directory (Games > Gambling >
Slots).  I have submitted our site with no results.

Thank you for your help in this matter.

Larry DeMar
President
Leading Edge Design
847-215-7766
larry@LEDGaming.com
Answer  
Subject: Re: Our site is being filtered from Google search results.
Answered By: missy-ga on 29 Nov 2002 19:49 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello Larry,

[ A brief note:  Google Answers is not responsible for the maintenance
of the Google Index - Google Answers Researchers can, however, help
you get information about how the Google Index works, how to submit
your site or get listed in other ways, and how to add to your site to
help improve your chances of getting listed. ]

If you weren't showing up in the search results before yesterday,
showed up yesterday, but you aren't listed today, the probability is
high that you're a "victim" of the "Google Dance".

The "Google Dance" is an affectionate term given to the process of
updating the Google Index every four weeks or so.  According to
Webmasterworld, the last Dance was completed on October 31st:

Google Update History
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/2657.htm

...which means that the index is in the middle of a Dance right now. 
During the Google Dance, the index is shuffled and "shaken out" -
pages may appear and disappear from the index as new pages are found
and ranked.  If you appeared, that's good news!  The Googlebot found
you and you're likely about to be listed!

Only "likely", though.  Getting listed is not guaranteed:

"We add thousands of new sites to our index each time we crawl the
Web, but if you like, you may submit your URL as well. Submission is
not necessary and does not guarantee inclusion in our index. Given the
large number of sites submitting URLs, it's likely your pages will be
found in an automatic crawl before they make it into our index through
the URL submission form. We DO NOT add all submitted URLs to our
index, and cannot predict when or if they will appear."

Submitting Your Site
://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#A2

I had a look at the source of your page, and didn't find anything
objectionable that would flag you for manual removal - you don't
employ "cloaking" methods, and the page is free of extraneous comments
and "keyword stuffing".

What your site is missing, it seems, is links back and mentions on
other pages.  A quick search to find pages containing the words
"www.ledgaming.com" turned up no mentions of your page on any other
page in the index:

Google Search
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&sa=G&q=%22%2Bwww.ledgaming.%2Bcom%22

I checked the other two pages you've noted above, and see that while
you do link back to http://www.ledgaming.com from them, neither of
them comes up in the index either.  This is the root cause of your
problem - no one else knows about you (or rather, no one else is
*talking* about you!), so you have no Page Rank.

Page what?

Page Rank is the method which determines which pages will be listed in
the Google index, and in what order. Pages with no Page Rank generally
don't appear in the index. Google explains:

"PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using
its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value.
In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote,
by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume
of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that
casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important"
weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."

Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google
remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages
mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google
combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find
pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes
far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines
all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages
linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query."

Page Rank Explained
://www.google.com/technology/index.html

So, how to fix this and get listed?

First, add more descriptive content to your site(s).  They're not bad
pages at all - they're simple and clean, but perhaps a little too
simple to accurately determine Page Rank.  This portion:

Games
http://www.ledgaming.com/games.htm

...is a good example of descriptive content.  Consider moving this to
your main page, and describing the games in a little bit more detail
(for instance, mention in Multi-Strike Poker and Othello's
descriptions that they were nominated for the Most Innovative Product
of 2003, instead of simply pointing at someone else's site).  Consider
also featuring press releases (full text!) on your other pages which
discuss the products you're offering.

Next, you need to get linked from other sites similar or related to
yours.  The best way to boost your chances of getting listed in the
Google index is to make sure you're well linked from other pages with
high Page Rank:

"Google finds sites through a process known as "crawling" the web.
This involves robot software that follows hyperlinks from site to
site. Google currently looks at more than 3 billion URL's during the
crawl. The process may take several weeks to complete.

When a URL is submitted to Google, we look for it in our next crawl.
If you've already submitted your URL, your site could easily appear in
our new index, which will go up when the current crawl is completed.
However, if no other site links to yours, it may be difficult for our
crawler to find you. Conversely, if many sites link to your page,
there is a good chance we will find you without your submitting your
URL."

[...]

"If we have not picked up your site and it has been several months,
then it is likely that our spiders are not able to find your site. If
you increase the links pointing to the page, Google will likely find
your site in the future."

Getting Listed
://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#B1

How do you get linked?  Do a search on the same terms you expect to
find your site listed under, then contact the top ten or twenty
webmasters and ask if they would be interested in exchanging links
with you.  Everybody loves free publicity, and it's the rare webmaster
who refuse a link exchange.

How else can you get linked?  Submit your site to the directories
maintained by Google's partners on the Web, Netscape and Yahoo.  Once
you've been listed in either or both of these directories, Google
usually indexes you in six to eight weeks:

Netscape's Open Directory - DMOZ
http://www.dmoz.org

Yahoo!
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/suggest/

If you've done all of this and you're still not showing up in the next
eight weeks or so, you might consider dropping a note to
help@google.com to find out if there are any other factors keeping you
out.

For more information about getting (and staying) listed, Google offers
several resources for webmasters:
 
Google Information for Webmasters  
://www.google.com/webmasters/  
  
Google Webmasters' FAQ  
://www.google.com/webmasters/faq.html  
  
User Support Forum  
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=google.public.support.general  

Additionally, to keep up with the latest Google Dance across all of
Google's servers, try the Google Dance Machine, which tracks how the
index looks on each of Google's servers worldwide:

Google Dance Machine 
http://google-dance.miniunternehmen.de/

For a terrific explanation of the Google Dance, Page Rank, and how
they affect listings, James Kendall at SEO today offers an
explanation:

It's All About Google - SEO Today, February 26, 2002 
http://www.seotoday.com/browse.php/category/articles/id/173/index.php

Good luck with your future listings!  If you need further assistance,
please don't hesitate to ask for clarification.  I'll be glad to help.

--Missy

Search terms:  none.  Google Help Pages are bookmarked and used
frequently.

Request for Answer Clarification by larry218-ga on 29 Nov 2002 22:35 PST
Missy and Webadept-

Thank you for taking the time and effort to provide such a clear
view of the workings of Google.  

I received an email from another agent this afternoon suggesting
that links were needed and already started that campaign this
afternoon.

I find comfort in understanding the process a little better and
feel that you each have provided me with good tools and suggestions
to help me get over this hurdle.

I do have a question however.  Our partner, IGT is a high profile site
and has the following 3 links to our sites:

#1	http://www.igt.com/games/new_games/cash_king.html
#2	http://www.igtproducts.com/IGTproducts/GameReview/CashKingCheckers.htm
#3	http://www.igt.com/games/new_games/othello.html

#1 is the top response if you search for "Cash King Checkers"
#2 is the top response if you search for "Cash King Checkers Figure 1"

Why is it that Google clearly knows of these pages which link to ours,
yet reports that no sites link to our site?

Also, last night during my "hallucination" of recognition I found another
page that mentions our site but with our URL in text form and not a link:

http://www.got2bet.com/newsletters/nl092202.html

Interestingly enough, it looks like this page got "danced away" overnight
(it was appearing in a search for "cashkingcheckers.com"). 

Thank you again for your help.

-Larry

(P.S. while composing this, our sites just danced back in sight...
(about the same time as last night, but I'll stop concocting 
theories to explain it :).  Thanks to you I won't be alarmed when
they're gone in the morning.

Clarification of Answer by missy-ga on 30 Nov 2002 04:18 PST
Good morning, Larry!

Google reports that you have no sites linked to yours at the moment,
even though you have a few links out there, because the Googlebot
hasn't "found" you yet the Link Tool only works for pages that are
already in the index.

As far as the Googlebot is concerned (at least for now), your page
doesn't exist, so it can't tell you what other pages link to you. 
Give it a little time to stop doing the Bot Boogie; once you're
listed, you'll be able to use the Link Tool with no trouble.

Usually, all it takes to get listed is a bit of site tweaking,
patience and time.

--Missy
larry218-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
Both Missy and Webadept provided valuable information to help me
understand what was going on.  They also provided valuable tools to
help to solve the problem.

It is currently much better (although it's not clear whether it was
the result of actions taken or just enough time to let the "Google
dance" play out) and I now know several ways to keep us on the radar
screens.

I didn't know anything about Google Answers when I ran into this
problem.  I stumbled into it because my problem was with Google.  I am
very impressed with the quality of help I was able to get for a very
reasonable fee.  I feel that Google Answers is a true breakthrough as
a new type of internet resource.  I will be back!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Our site is being filtered from Google search results.
From: webadept-ga on 29 Nov 2002 19:59 PST
 
Hi, 

Missy's answer is great. I prepared this answer early this morning but
wasn't around when your question got unlocked. However, since it's
prepared I'll post it here for you. Most of it has already been
covered by Missy, but .. waste not want not as they say.

begin ----- 

Hi, 

This is going to sound a bit obtuse, but I doubt your website is being
filtered. It normally takes 60-90 days for a new site to be indexed
and listed in a stable fashion on Google or any search engine really.
You are at less than the 60 day mark and Google has already found you.
This is a good sign. For the next few weeks, maybe even a month, you
may pop on and pop off the radar, as the engine figures out who you
are and what your page rank will be. It's frustrating, and can drive
you quite mad if you let it. My advice would be not to look at it too
often and enjoy the holiday season. Honestly. I have several clients a
year that have to go through this and it is always the same. Really.

There are some things you can do to help the PageRank once it is
established and to help your site become more stable on the search
engines. I've written out several things for your website and this
will help your site not only show up, but list well on the searches.

Page Rank, can be viewed by using the Google Search bar. It has the PR
(Page Rank) on it. You can get one of these handy little items here :
http://toolbar.google.com/ 
 
I wrote an article on this, can't post the whole thing here, but here
is some of it to help you further understand the Page Rank system
which is used by Google.
 
Google, has in the past half of a year introduced the Page Rank
feature. If you are not familiar with Google's Page Rank, which is
known as PR most the time, its Google's calculation or score of a web
page based on external and internal linking of a site, as well as
on-page criteria of the web page being linked to as well as the web
page being linked from. The actual amount of effect that Google's
PageRank has on the ranking of a website or web pages is the cause of
much discussion, and Google is keeping its mouth shut on the topic.
What we do know is that a web page's PR does play a role in Google's
indexing and Google's ranking. The higher a web page's PageRank, the
more frequently it will be crawled and refreshed. This is important on
several levels.
 
Internal linking 
 
To get your Page Rank up you need to pay attention to the foundation
design of your website. The menu systems, links to internal pages from
front pages, from bottom tier pages back to higher levels, and several
other factors. We're going to go through some of that here.
 
On most sites, the first page, or the index.html page is going to have
the highest PR rating. This makes sense, it being out there getting
hit all the time, and if some else is linking to you, its probably
that page, but you still need to watch how this happens to get the
best effect for your total site.
 
Lets say your site has three levels of pages. The first is the
Index.html, at the top of the pyramid. The next level is your About
Us, Contact, News, and Items for Sale, cover pages. The third level is
full story pages, product pages, and the more detailed info pages that
your site is offering. In standard design, the top index page is going
to link to the menu
pages, and then those main menu pages are going to link down to the
more detailed pages on the third level.
 
Let's give your site a Page Rank of 6 on the top level, the
index.html. This is a really good ranking by the way, this means lots
of websites like you and you are doing something right.
As the links happen, and we go down into your site, we'll see that the
second level pages have a rating of 5 on the PR bar. Going further
down to our product pages we see that these detail pages have a level
of 3, or even 2 on some of them.
 
This type of PR dilution makes since to the robots, but our bottom
layer pages is often where most of the details of our websites lie,
and the content that will bring into our site the web searcher looking
for information on the web. We want these pages to show up better on
the search engines and have higher page rankings themselves.
 
That these pages have poor PR doesn't necessarily mean that they will
not place well on the search listings, some place very well, but the
better rank they have, the better our whole site will place.
 
The guys over at Top Site Listings came up with a good checklist. I
don't know much about their company, but many of their articles are
sound in reason and accuracy. You might want to check them out.
 
* Make sure that your primary page(s), the index.htm page, links to
your secondary pages or secondary levels.
* Make sure that your secondary pages link to each other  
* Link your secondary pages to the third level pages within their
sub-directory, sub-domain, or level
* Link the third level pages within each specific sub-directory or
sub-domain to each other.
* Link the third level pages back to the secondary page that it was
linked from
* Make sure that the there is not heavy linking between third level
pages
* Link to pages, regardless of level, that are relevant  
* Link to pages, regardless of level, where the text on the page being
linked from is keyword specific to the page that you are linking to
* If there are fourth level pages, follow the same linking structure
that has been laid out in this checklist
 
Other reminders: 
 
* Only link pages within your site that are relevant to each other  
* Use keyword specific link text when linking between pages  
* Use standard HREFs in links that are easy for the search engine
robots.
 
External Linking 
 
The greatest effect on your PR is going to come from external links.
This seems like a bummer because we don't have much control over what
someone else will do with their site. Also its just as important Who
links to us, as it is how many link to us.
 
Internet is based on community and what some people call per review.
Always has been and this is some of the basis of what Google considers
good external links. There are well thought out reasons for this. If
someone that owns a car dealership is linking to my page, Google
doesn't feel that the link is as important as say another Internet
Programmer linking to my page. A link from a page in the same type of
category is a per review for better or worst. The link may becoming
from my competitor from inside an article that explains how much I
don't know about Internet programming, and why you should stick with
him. That's okay, says Google, its still a per, so the PR is higher
for my site. As they say about gossips, "Hey, at least they are
thinking about you."
 
My link in this article is helping Top Site Listing's PR, but not as
much as you might think. Their current PR is 5 and at the time of this
writing, mine is 4. Having a lower site link to a higher site is not
as good as the reverse happening. This is not to say it doesn't help
them, but its a lower calculation.
 
This is why the idea of getting 100 domain names and having them all
link to your main website is not really a worth wild idea. The 100
domains are not going to have a high PR, in fact, with this strategy,
they normally don't have a PR at all. And if they are all linking to
each other, the web-bots figure this out and call it spamming, and
black list the whole lot of you.



Your site is also lacking a few things, enough so that your site will
drop off the radar periodically, as mine did before I fixed them.
 
First off, make a file called robots.txt. This should be a plain text
file and have a single line in it (for you anyway) That line should
be:
  
User-agent: *  
 
This lets all robots know that its okay to index your site. You don't
have one and google bot will sometimes get confused and skip your
site, at least this is the way it was explained to me. Since I've had
this file, I've not had the problem.
 
No space at the top, and plain, regular text. Put this in the main
area of your site. Check that it is readable by going to the file
using http://www.ledgaming.com/robots.txt. You should be able to read
it. If not, then try again using plain text. Don't put anything in
there except that line.

You can find out about Robot files here:
http://www.upenn.edu/computing/web/webdev/meta/metarobot.html

And you can find one that will work for your site here:
http://www.lucidmatrix.com/uploads/robots.txt

If you haven't done so already, submit your site to the DMOZ project.
You can submit your site to Netscape's Open Directory Project (DMOZ)
by visiting
http://www.dmoz.org 


Stay away from programs like Web Position Gold. 

If you are using a program such as Web Position Gold to monitor your
website on the Search Engines, then you will want to stop and write
the google admin folks at help@google.com and let  them know you have
stopped. The polling feature Web Position Gold uses to monitor
websites is known to Google and is against their Terms of Service.
Using it will take your website off the index all together. A good
page to read on this subject is here :

Search Engine Guide: Orbidex: Safe and Smart Site Submissions
http://www.searchengineguide.com/orbidex/2001/0824_orb1.html


More Links to SEO information
 
Google Search Engine Webmaster page 
://www.google.com/webmasters/ 
 
Google Support Discussion Group.  
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=google.public.support
 
Search Engine Forum at JimWorld 
http://www.searchengineforums.com/bin/Ultimate.cgi 
 
Quote from Google submission Page : 
Google does not accept payment for inclusion of sites in our index,
nor for improving the rank of sites in our results. We do offer
advertising opportunities adjacent to our results, which are always
clearly labeled "Sponsored Links". The method by which we find pages
and rank them as search results is determined by the PageRank
technology developed by our founders, Larry Page and Sergey Brin.
 
One of the pages this is on is here: 
://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html 
 
://www.google.com/webmasters/facts.html 
 
In the same area, a quick list of Do's and Don'ts for Google listings
here:
://www.google.com/webmasters/dos.html 

Google explains Page Ranking 
://www.google.com/technology/index.html 
 
The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hyper-textual Web Search Engine 
http://www-db.stanford.edu/%7Ebackrub/google.html 
 
There is a website that will show you what the robots are looking at
when they come to your site. You will notice that very few words are
being seen and none of your hyper links leading inside. This is a
problem.
 
http://www.searchengineworld.com/cgi-bin/sim_spider.cgi 

Here's a good page to read on getting lots of visitors and improving 
your PR 
http://www.searchengineworld.com/misc/guide.htm  
  
Here's another one about the Google Engine   
http://www.searchengineworld.com/spiders/google_faq.htm  
  

Thanks, 

webadept-ga

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