I have come across the following quotation, described as a 'Homage to
Antonio Gaudi' Can any one identify it:

Life is in the gift of the immortal gods
Living well is the gift of philosophy
Was it philosophy that created all the towering sculpted tenements so
dangerous to the persons who dwell in them
Believe me it was a happy age before the age of architects.

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Request for Question Clarification by techtor-ga on 02 Dec 2002 02:40 PST

I would like to know what specifically you are looking for. Is it the
source of the quote, the work where it came from, the author or are
you looking for any occurence of this quote on the Internet? May I
also know where you came across the quote. Thanks.

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Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 02 Dec 2002 02:42 PST

Like techtor-ga, I'm disappointed that I haven't been able to find the
quote you're looking for. Could you give some more information about
the context where you found it?

In the meantime, here's a wonderful site on the works of Gaudi --
although I don't think the quote is about Gaudi at all but rather an
expression of a philosophical position on architecture.

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/ags/GAUDI.htm
Antoni Gaudí i Cornet

czh

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Clarification of Question by sasasa-ga on 02 Dec 2002 04:54 PST

The quote was found in a new bank building in the Netherlands. It was
on an obelisk and I have repeated it in full. I suspect the bank was
ABN Amro. I did ask them but at the time no one could find out why it
was put there. Curiously enough it was in a garage entrance.

It sounds to be as though the quote was genuine - the obelisk had
nothing else on it but the quote. There was no obvious relevance to
gaudi - rather to architects. I saw it and recorded it approximately 7
years ago. The building had been built some years before that,
although it was 'modern'.
Hope you can find something.

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Clarification of Question by sasasa-ga on 02 Dec 2002 04:55 PST

It has the ring of a translation about it.

Hello sasasa-ga,

Tehuti-ga was on the right track; all three lines of this homage come
from Lucius Annaeus Seneca.  Seneca did not write the three lines
consecutively, but he did write them all in one text: Ad Lucilium
Epistulae Morales, tomus II, Ep. xc (also known as Epistulae ad
Lucilium, epistle 90).

One translation of this epistle from the Latin includes the lines as
follows:

"Who can doubt, my dear Lucilius, that it is the gift of the immortal
gods that we live and the gift of philosophy, that we live well?"

"Is it philosophy which throws up those tottering structures so
dangerous to those who live in them?"

"Believe me, What a happy time it was, before there were architects
and builders!"

"Seneca: Epistulae Morales: Ep. xc" [1], [9], [8]
University of Saskatchewan: Department of Classics: Classics
233.3(02): Introduction to Ancient Thought (Winter 2001, Instructor:
N. McCloskey, Arts 608)
http://duke.usask.ca/~niallm/233/Seneca.htm

The first line is also translated as tehuti-ga indicated: "Life is a
gift of the immortal Gods, but living well is the gift of philosophy."

"Seneca" [page 3 of 10]
Quoteworld
http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=Seneca&page=3

I have not found any other translations of the second line, though
they surely exist, at least in books.  (It may be that the second line
is less often quoted.)  For example, you could consult this
translation:

"Letters from a Stoic: Epistulae Morales Ad Lucilium (The Penguin
Classics L210)
by Lucius Annaeus Seneca, Robin Campbell (Translator)"
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140442103/102-9230448-6142520

The third line is elsewhere translated as "Believe me, that was a
happy age, before the days of architects, before the days of
builders."

"The Columbia World of Quotations. 1996. Number: 49020"
Bartleby.com
http://www.bartleby.com/66/20/49020.html

- justaskscott-ga


Search terms used on Google:

"happy age" architects
"gift of the immortal gods" philosophy
seneca philosophy structures dangerous dwell [I got lucky there;
"dwell" is another part of the epistle]
"epistulae morales" site:amazon.com

[I had also tried other variations on these searches, but these were
the ones that worked.]

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Request for Answer Clarification by sasasa-ga on 02 Dec 2002 07:25 PST

teriffic.

Many thanks - but any idea who used it as a homage to Gaudi

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Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 02 Dec 2002 09:02 PST

I won't be able to check on this until this evening; I have to leave
the house for several hours now.  I'm not sure whether this
information is on the Internet, as techtor and czh indicated, but I'll
check once more.

In the meantime, I should ask you: was this information inscribed in
English or Dutch?  If Dutch, do you recall any of the words in Dutch? 
If English -- which I gather is the case -- do you recall whether this
might have been an American or a British bank?  Or perhaps a Spanish
bank?  (I think ABN Amro is Dutch, though it is international.)  Also,
was the building in Amsterdam or a different city?  And lastly, did
the building look like it was designed by Gaudi or someone who
designed in his style?  Any of this information would narrow the
possibilities down a bit.

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Request for Answer Clarification by sasasa-ga on 02 Dec 2002 15:10 PST

Thanks. It was ion English and exactly as I transcribed it. The bank
was definately not British or American. It was in Amsterdam and was a
Dutch bank. No, it didn't look like a Gaudi building if Gaudi's
Barcelona buildings are anything to judge by. I could not discover any
connection with Gaudi.

Thanks

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Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 02 Dec 2002 16:04 PST

I will ask other Researchers if they know about this obelisk and
inscription, or can think of a way to find it.  Perhaps it really is
in an ABN/AMRO bank in Amsterdam.  So I will contact ABM/AMRO to see
if it is.

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Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 18 Dec 2002 20:15 PST

I received a reply from Jaap-Jan Mobron of the ABN AMRO Historisch
Archief, which states:

"Concerning your question on the location of the inscription entitled
'Homage to Gaudì', I am afraid I can not help you.  I pride myself on
a
considerable level of historical and architectural knowledge of 
Amsterdam but I must admit I have never heard of such an inscription. 
The only
obelisk (of sorts) I know of in Amsterdam is the WWII memorial on Dam
Square but I'm quite sure this bears no such inscription.

We have asked our colleagues at the historical department of the other
major Amsterdam-based Dutch bank, ING, and they also have no idea. I 
can only suggest you search the Internet or go look for it yourself in
Amsterdam.  Maybe the municipal archives (
http://www.gemeentearchief.amsterdam.nl/ ) can help you."

Disappointing, but still, I wanted to let you know.

“Life is a gift of the immortal Gods, but living well is the gift of
philosophy."
is a quotation from Lucius Annaeus Seneca (4BC?-AD 65), [The Younger]
Roman Stoic philosopher, writer, tutor
http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=Lucius%20Annaeus%20Seneca&page=2