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Q: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's? ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   5 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Television
Asked by: pck-ga
List Price: $4.00
Posted: 03 May 2002 06:25 PDT
Expires: 02 Jun 2002 06:26 PDT
Question ID: 12032
Why do flat screen, tube (ie direct view) televisions, like the Sony 
Wega's have trouble with curves on a normal cable broadcast?  Curves 
appear anti-aliased, and jaggy, and shimmer when the camera moves.  
Especially noticable in sports.  Why do cheaper, curved screens not 
have this problem? 
 
Is there any way to lessen the effect on normal cable broadcasts? 
Answer  
Subject: Re: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
Answered By: mvguy-ga on 03 May 2002 09:12 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
 
Hi pck,

The explanation given in an earlier comment is correct: the problem is
that you're dealing with a picture that is quite sharp, so you see the
imperfections that weren't there before.

Yes, the flat-screen tube is still a picture tube using basically the
same technology that others use.  But, according to Sony, its tubes
are designed to decrease bleed (technically not pixel bleed if we're
dealing with an analog image):

"Fine Pitch Aperture Grille uses higher tension and thicker members
which help focus the electrons for outstanding detail and clarity.

"High-Focus Electron Gun improves corner-to-corner focus by 20%
compared to Sony's previous designs. Increased focal length led to
more powerful pinpoint, corner-to-corner focus - without making the
overall gun larger.

"High-Precision Deflection Yoke assures that the beam spot is
supremely consistent in size and shape. You get accurate image
reproduction from side to side, from top to bottom."
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/wega/difference/index.html

You're far from the first to notice the problem with the Wega TV: the
issue has come up in various forums, especially in discussion of
videogames, where the jagginess inherent in some games becomes more
noticeable.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wega+jaggies

In one forum, it was suggested that the problem could be some of
Sony's circuitry (called DRC) to enhance the images, but I didn't see
that possibility mentioned elsewhere.  But it does make sense, since
the circuitry is designed to make images sharper. Some reports say it
enhances the outlines of objects, and that too might increase apparent
jagginess. In this discussion, one person posted an unauthorized way
to adjust the circuitry, although even the person posting it says that
its use could void the warranty.  I'm not suggesting doing so either.
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=7&forum=34

Here is Sony's explanation of the circuitry.
http://www.sony.com.ph/cool/products/drc.html

Unless you want to take the drastic (and not recommended) step of
modifying your TV's circuitry, the best advice is to use the focus
control (assuming your model has one) to soften the picture.
Decreasing the picture's contrast might help also, although obviously
both of those steps might decrease picture quality in other ways.

I hope this all helps,

mvguy
pck-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars
good answer, fast

Comments  
Subject: Re: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
From: micke-ga on 03 May 2002 06:51 PDT
 
Lines who are not horizontal or vertical.
That is curves and diagonal type of lines.
Will get jagged, because the picture is so much sharper!

You can compare the same thing on a computer screen.
By making a high contrast circle and thin lines on picture.
And then view it on an old CRT (tube) screen, and a TFT (flat LCD) screen.

You will directly notice the sharpness on the TFT screen.
You will see EVERY little (square) pixel, and therefor get a jagged line.
That is perfect for viewing Text.

On the old CRT screen though, the pixels will 'melt' together.
And create an illusion of a smooth circle and soft lines.
That makes a more real Photo experience, but is bad for Text.
Subject: Re: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
From: pck-ga on 03 May 2002 07:41 PDT
 
But is not a flat screen tube tv still a tube tv?  Why doesn't the
pixel bleed happen on it?  I'm well aware of TFT's and their
limitations, but suprised a tube based tv can have the same problems.

Thanks for the info though.
Subject: Re: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
From: jeanluis-ga on 03 May 2002 13:32 PDT
 
It should be noted that a line with jaggies is called aliased (because
it is not the actual line that was intended, it is an alias of that
line).
Lines without the jaggies (lines that have been "fixed") are called
anti-aliased.

This site talks about it:
http://html.about.com/library/weekly/aa051898.htm
Subject: Re: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
From: micke-ga on 04 May 2002 07:46 PDT
 
>But is not a flat screen tube tv still a tube tv?

Yes.

>Why doesn't the pixel bleed happen on it?

Because it is better made.
It got a more perfect way to aim the beam of light
into the aperture mask.

>I'm well aware of TFT's and their limitations,

The only limitation of the TFT's are the lack
of the brighter colors that a CRT-tube can perform.
The sharpness is outstanding in comparison.


>but suprised a tube based tv can have the same problems.

It is not a problem.
I welcome the great job they've done, to finaly make
a CRT-tube that can create a crisp sharp picture.

If you want a fussy/blurry picture.
Then buy the old type.

>Thanks for the info though. 

You're welcome.
Subject: Re: Shimmering Jaggies on flat screen tube tv's?
From: pck-ga on 05 May 2002 10:10 PDT
 
>>Why doesn't the pixel bleed happen on it? 
 
>Because it is better made. 
>It got a more perfect way to aim the beam of light 
>into the aperture mask. 

>>but suprised a tube based tv can have the same problems. 
 
>It is not a problem. 
>I welcome the great job they've done, to finaly make 
>a CRT-tube that can create a crisp sharp picture. 
>If you want a fussy/blurry picture. 
>Then buy the old type. 

I know this thread is sort-of dead, but i'd just like to say, I'm
getting a "fussy/blurry" picture TV instead.  I'm all for sharpness,
and a good picture, but if aliasing is the price, its not worth it. 
Anyone who honestly says a aliased picture that is really sharp is
better than a slightly "blurry" picture, that to the human eye looks
much softer is better is either kidding themselves, and looking for
excuses for there expensive equipment, or doesn't care as much about
what they're looking at as they claim.

I only hope when time comes around for HD sets, they do not suffer
from aliasing - never seen a progressive scan tv before, but i hope it
fixes these things.

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