I'm looking for soft body armor. Thinking of a short vest, no trauma
plate, to be worn discreetly under a civilian shirt. Guess NIJ Level I
- IIA should do, I'm not likely to bump into an Afgan tribesmen with
an old .30-06, just a typical street kid with a stolen piece, or a
stray one from a street shooting. I'd like it light and thin, and it's
gotta be cool enough to wear in the tropics, all day and evening. I've
heard that the Ultima 9 from Second Chance is the business, but it's
also a bit pricey.

What is the best vest for my needs?  References and facts are useful,
experienced opinion just as good.

[RESEARCHER, PLEASE DONT ANSWER UNLESS YOU ALREADY KNOW SOMETHING
ABOUT THIS STUFF ID RATHER BE CONFUSED THAN DEAD]

Five stars for a quick, short answer, others unrated.

---

Clarification of Question by spurious-ga on 13 Dec 2002 02:07 PST

PS, I have read http://www.nlectc.org/pdffiles/selectapp2001.pdf  I'm
more interested in opinion from someone who has worn a vest, knows
someone who wears a vest or can find similar testimonials or reports.

Dear spurious-ga;

Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to answer your interesting
question.

In my opinion, Point Blank Concealable Body Armor is by far the best
product around, both in terms of cost and performance. I have worn a
vest for more than 20 years in my law enforcement career and have seen
first hand the protection it provides. It is lightweight, functional,
breathable and contours the body so as to remain as inconspicuous as
possible under the circumstances. The vests I have worn have been
rated as high as TYPE II IAW NIJ STD. 0101.03 and have proven to be
very comfortable. You can order interchangeable panels and washable
carriers that allow the vest to be applied snugly against the body
(this of course of paramount importance for the successful absorption
of shock by Kevlar)

I prefer to wear model TFLC11B or something similar because it does
not have a sternum shock plate. The choice of course is yours, but I
can attest to the fact that the plate adds significant weight to the
vest and it is somewhat cumbersome. In addition, for what this is
worth, I have only known one person who has ever been struck by a
bullet directly in the plate and most people will agree that the
Kevlar alone is usually enough to provide this protection. Plates are
generally used to prevent high velocity rounds like the one you
described, close combat shooting scenarios or stabbings. If these are
of no real concern to you then a plate is probably not going to be a
significant accessory anyway.

I hope you find that that my research exceeds your expectations. If
you have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. I welcome your rating and your
final comments and I look forward to working with you again in the
near future. Thank you for using Google Answers.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad-ga

INFORMATION SOURCES

“Point Blank”
http://www.pointblankarmor.com/products/legacy.asp


SEARCH STRATEGY


SEARCH ENGINE USED:

Google ://www.google.com


SEARCH TERMS USED:

Point Blank body armor

tutuzdad-ga,

Thanks for your great answer. It was precisely what I was hoping for –
first hand knowledge and practical advice.

All I had found on the internet was marketing bull****. I couldn’t
even tell which vest a manufacturer recommended for any given specs.
This is just what I need.

BTW, NIJ STD. 0101.03 has been replaced by 0101.04, but I’m sure you
knew that.

I’m also looking at sharp-resistance; some manufacturers say they can
offer it without rigid plates (dead giveaway). But… I know it’s not a
good idea to do a self-evaluation of threat level.  I know
over-protection is a mistake.  It looks like I’m going to have to find
a consultant.

byrd-ga,

Thanks also for your help. Sorry I can’t pay you.  Please also thank
your friend for me.  That’s good advice he had about trying out a few
models.  Problem is, where I come from, there are no shooting stores,
(no 2nd Amendment, so only the criminals carry)!

I’m getting the feeling that heat, not bulk, is going to be the No 1
annoyance, especially in 80%-90% humidity.  I’ll go with a wicking
undergarment and a dark shirt and see if I can get away without a
jacket.

spurious-ga

Hi Spurious --
I'd emailed your question to a friend of mine who's worked over
twenty-five years with our state DPS.  I didn't get a real definitive
reply like Tutuzdad-ga gave you, but for what it's worth I thought I'd
pass along what my friend did say, since he had a different
recommendation.  Here's his reply:

"There are many Ballistic Vests on the market.  Just about all are
light-weight and comfortable enough to be worn under regular clothing
in a discreet manner.  However, they are all a little warm.  The brand
we are currently wearing is by "Safariland" and they have different
levels of protection."

Also, he suggested going to a local gun store that has them for sale. 
I'm pretty sure my local store won't help you any, but you might try a
gun store in your area to see what/if they have available.  At least
maybe you could try a few on to see how they feel, etc.

Again, hope you have a good - and safe - trip.

Best wishes,
Byrd

Dear spurious-ga:

You are asking the right questions about Body Armor and the first
answer really didn't do you justice recommending just one company, as
there are many good models of vests out there.

I'm the President of BulletProofME.com Body Armor - besides wearing
armor and dealing with it every day we get contant feedback from our
customers.

1.  I'd recommend starting your research at our FAQs

We've attempted to combine research and common sense experience in one
easy to read page:
<http://bulletproofme.com/Quick_Answers.shtml> 


2.  Re the TRAUMA PLATE - 5" by 8" Kevlar Soft Packs are less than
half a pound and don't affect concealability, so I would definitely
wear one.  Your Sternum bone, mid-chest, is very vulnerable to blunt
trauma.


3.  Re BALLISTIC PROTECTION LEVEL - DON'T CHOOSE A LEVEL I VEST - this
is just Fragmentation and .38 Special protection!  Level II-A is the
thinnest and lightest option to stop common pistol rounds such as 9mm,
see our Chart of the Levels at:
<http://bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml> 

3.  Re Coolness of a Vest - I'd stick with Level II-A to keep it as
thin and light as possible.  To be the bearer of bad news, to quote
our FAQs:

"How COMFORTABLE are vests?   Very comfortable - unless it gets hot!
You usually don't notice an extra 3 - 5 lbs. of weight all that much,
and vests don't restrict freedom of movement very much (if fitted
properly), BUT...

Heat buildup is always a problem in the summer. No vest on earth can
honestly claim to be comfortable when it is hot and/or you are
exercising and sweating hard. The thickness of the ballistic panel
insulates you, and the waterproofing of the ballistic panel simply
prevents effective cooling through the vest.

So, you might want to leave a gap on the sides for extra ventilation
when we size you, and accept only partial side protection.

We always recommend at least one of our Sweat-Wicking Undershirts to
keep you drier and cooler. It accomplishes this by wicking sweat away
literally 3 times faster than a cotton shirt. When the sweat has been
"wicked" to the edge of the vest it can then evaporate."

Take a look at our website for further information:
<http://bulletproofme.com> 

Yours truly,

Nick Taylor
President
BulletProofME Body Armor, Inc. 
" Put the Odds in YOUR Favor "

I maintain that the answer was satisfactory, even if it did not survey
all available products.  I wanted an opinion of at least one product
by someone qualified, and I got that.

But before some editor stomps on you for advertising, I'd like to
thank you for your input and advice on protection levels.  I never
bought the vest; the job I would have needed it for was cancelled. 
I'm still in the market, and will be in contact.

Thx.

Dear spurious,

A Level II or IIIA a vest would be your best choice. There are
different types of body armor offered and basically they do not differ
that much. The two mayor anti-ballistic materials used are KEVLAR and
DYNEEMA (=SPECTRA). These materials have shown that even after five
years the ballistic properties are well maintained. It is very
important that the vest fits perfectly in order to be effective. At
USA body armor (http://www.usabodyarmor.com) you will find a range of
custom made vests. The usage of advanced materials such as COOLMAX®
further adds to the comfort of wearing our vests and prevents sweat.

More information can be found at http://www.usabodyarmor.com/faq.htm.

Scott Burton
USA body armor