What is the best way to audio record a lecture in terms of equipment?
It could be either based on a lavalier mic or a wired mic.
Take into consideration the following:
1) I want a complete package proposition including mic, recorder and
possibly a wireless transmitter and receiver.
2) The lecturer paces.
3) The lecturer does not always face the front of the class room.
4) The audio must be recorded digitally and stored easily on a PC via
file transfer, not re-recording.
5) I need equipment recommendations based on price and quality
6) All recommendations must be backed up by reputable reviews.
7) The complete package must be under $500.
8) Any equipment over $100 must have a minimum 90 day warranty.
9) Lectures last up to five hours long. |
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
16 Dec 2002 10:57 PST
Hi
Being my profession (i am a recording engineer/recordist/sound mixer)
i must say that what you want is not possible within the price. Read
on…
1) I want a complete package proposition including mic, recorder and
possibly a wireless transmitter and receiver.
>>that's possible.
2) The lecturer paces.
3) The lecturer does not always face the front of the class room.
>>not a problem as long as he wears a lavaliere wireless mic.
(remember – no wireless transmitter can record continuously for 5
hours. They use batteries and there are no mics that can function for
that long – continuously on batteries. A battery change will
definitely be required. Problem# 1)
4) The audio must be recorded digitally and stored easily on a PC via
file transfer, not re-recording.
>>options for this exist but are very expensive. Any digital recorder
that records the broadcast .wav format for example will cost up to
$8K. other alternatives (of course, not 'file transfer' as you
mention) but 'audio transfer' are possible.
5) I need equipment recommendations based on price and quality
>>price- you have anywhere to go, quality-limits don’t exist.
6) All recommendations must be backed up by reputable reviews.
>>not a problem at all... depending on the kind of equipment.
7) The complete package must be under $500.
>>definitely not possible if all your conditions are to be met. if it
were possible, i would own multiple packages myself!
8) Any equipment over $100 must have a minimum 90 day warranty.
>>maybe. most professional equipment is covered for 1 year, but it
depends.
9) Lectures last up to five hours long.
>>which means either you use two overlapping recorders and switch
media as it nears an end and edit later or you find a way to record
continuously for 5 hours (let's say 6 hours to add a buffer both
ways). There …may be a solution for this.
Points for you to consider:
a) In a lecture, it will most probably be in a hall or a (smaller)
large space. Reverberation, audience noise, etc are realities in such
a space and such a program. Moreover it cannot be eliminated
completely. The main point should be in getting the lecturer's speech
recorded in such a manner that it is completely 'intelligible'.
Meaning that it should be possible to hear it once and be understood
completely.
b) In any case, a medium for such long duration recording is special
and cannot be done by ordinary tape, DAT, etc. You will certainly have
to reconsider your decision to hike your investment in this equipment.
This is if you have a recurring requirement for this kind of
recording.
c) Alternately, professional sound recordists may be available in your
area who may possess the equipment and will be glad to do this job for
you, for a price. I can find you some through my contacts in the
industry.
In any case, the requirement to record a 5 hour long lecture may even
require them to work with alternative media - meaning more money!
Let me know what you think…
warm regards and best wishes for the season
vinods-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
solar12123-ga
on
16 Dec 2002 11:27 PST
Suppose I use a laptop with a large hard drive as my recording devise?
I would probably need some software to do a high quality compresion.
You may exclude the laptop from the $500 limit. A five hour lecture
always has a break so I could switch the battery on a lavalier mic
once providing each battery will last for at least 2.5 hours.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
16 Dec 2002 20:29 PST
Hi,
1. RECORDING SOFTWARE
Sonic Foundry Sound Forge is a very good program. With this you can
record 16-bit .WAV format directly onto a hard drive. A minute of MONO
audio will take 5MB of space. Therefore 300 minutes should take
300x5=1500 MB or 1.5 GB. However what you should do is to cut the
recording whenever it is possible and begin a new file. You can later
edit the files with this software which allows great flexibility in
this process.
[ http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/showproduct.asp?PID=668 ]
The price is listed on the Sonic Foundry at $350. As with almost all
software, I am sure one will be able to find a better price.
2. MICROPHONE
See, there are many mics available in the lower price bracket. But in
my opinion, none of them are reliable enough to give one completely
unbroken, or noise-free recordings. Wireless audio signals are
susceptible to a number of problems - RF disturbances, loss of signal
due to multi-path reflections, etc., and these problems heighten in an
environment where there is a lot of RF activity. I am sure there will
be a lot of RF in the air where this lecture is to take place.
Low cost wireless mics are non-diversity, meaning single antenna
systems that are definitely not completely reliable. These mics are
used in semi-pro conditions, or on locations only for reference
monitoring. They are never used in critical situations. The more
professional wireless mics use diversity systems which have double
antennas that make sure the possibility of RF 'hits' and any
extraneous RF disturbances will be minimized. However they are
expensive, and start at around $3000.
Considering all these factors, it may be prudent for you to hire a
professional microphone from a sound mixer living in your area. In
fact, he may be able to help you with the setup of your recording
system too. If you feel this is a viable option, you will have to let
me know your location so that I can find you details of an equipment
hire outfit or a sound mixer there.
Do let me know what you think.
Warm regards
vinods-ga
(Since I am at GMT + 5 1/2 hours on the timeline, my clarifications
may seem to be coming in late. Please don't mind this.)
|
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
16 Dec 2002 21:49 PST
Hi
As for software for recording on to a computer hard drive, there are
many alternatives. As such, Sound Forge is excellent, and reliable. I
say this because I use it myself. I will post you some alternatives. I
am downloading trial versions so that I can check them out before I
recommend them to you.
warm regards
vinods-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
solar12123-ga
on
16 Dec 2002 22:26 PST
1. RECORDING SOFTWARE
it sounds like i do not need sound forge especialy if it is not going
to compress the sound for me. From your description, windows media
recorder will do just as well.
2. MICROPHONE
This is where some reviews and your personal knowledge come in to
play. What microphone system, wireless or not, will give me the best
sound in my price range. For your information my lectures generaly
have between 40 and people and it is possible for me to sit in the
front of the class room.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
17 Dec 2002 01:05 PST
Hi,
Regarding the first point, yes, it can do the job. However, any
editing, etc., will need other software. However I will suggest that
you rig up the system and test it out completely before the lecture.
As for a good microphone, I would suggest: IF you can manage to sit in
one place, and maybe curtail movement, a wired lavaliere mic will be
the best option for you. By this you completely avoid possible breaks
in the sound, and RF disturbance, etc., that are endemic to cheap
wireless systems. My personal favourite for this kind of situation is
the Sony ECM-77B. There are also other mics in this series that can do
the job.
----------- WIRED LAVALIERE MICROPHONES -----------
Sony ECM series lavaliere mics
SONY ECM-44B
SONY ECM-55B
SONY ECM-66B
SONY ECM-77B
(all below $500)
Any one of these mics is good for your application. The 77B is the
smallest of the range. Hence the cost. All of these come with a Tie
clip, A double-mic tie-clip (not required for you), and a grill
windshield (which you can use to avoid any wind noise while movement
or if there are any drafts in the area).
MIC POWER SUPPLY
These mics are "condenser" mics, meaning that they have a small power
supply that requires a 1.5V standard "AA" size cell. The cell lasts
very, very long because the current requirement for running the mic is
very low. There is absolutely no chance of the mic running out of
power in 5 hours. In fact, I have used a single cell for many full
days with the 77B. The power supply is a cylindrical metal tube at the
very end of the mic cable. It opens up to reveal a space where you
insert the 1.5V "AA" cell.
MIC CONNECTOR
The mic terminates into what is called an 'XLR' connector. This is a
professional connector. However what you need is for the termination
to be 'EP' or 3.5mm connector. This will need an adapting cable that
has an XLR connector on one side and the small 3.5mm connector on the
other side. I will find you a source for this, if you decide to go for
this microphone. This adapting cable will give you the desired length
to be away from the laptop.
You can find these mics at many dealers including
URL [ http://www.coffeysound.com/ ] (You will have to go to the
shopping page and look at 'lavaliere' mics in the catalog.)
However, I am sure you can find a dealer in your area. I can help you
out with this if you let me know your exact location.
WIRING YOURSELF WITH THE MIC
The best way to wire yourself is to make sure that the mic cable is
securely fixed to your body. This is possible by letting the cable go
under your shirt and away from your body at waist level.
Secondly, you should allow a certain length of cable from your body to
the recording device (laptop in this case) and test out your movements
to specify a limit to how far can you go from 'point zero', which is
your fixed point (where you will sit, for example).
-----------
If you want 'freedom', which means move around without being
'fettered' by a cable:
--------- WIRELESS MICROPHONE SYSTEMS ---------
Around $500 - my choice (decided by personal use)
1. SENNHEISER EW-122P (ask for lavaliere mic instead of headset mic)
[http://buy.sennheiserusa.com/ASP/Sennheiser/pdf/ricksevolution/ew112.pdf
]
(for product description)
[http://www.musiciansbuy.com/sennheiser_evolution_wireless_microphones.htm#EW122
] List Price: $835.00 / Our Price: $499.99
2. AKG WMS80/17
[http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/akg_wms80.html ]
Price $499.00
3. AUDIO TECHNICA ATW-1235-830
[ http://www.equipmentemporium.com/wireless1.htm ] (middle of page)
Equipment Emporium price $525.00
4. SHURE LX14/93
[ http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/lx.html ] Price $579.00
5. Shure ULXS14/93 (WL93 lavaliere mic included)
[ http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/shure_ulx-s.html ] Price $659
6. SHURE TPD/84
[ http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/tseries.html ] $347.00
Well, I hope you check these out and let me know what you feel. (At
some point I should be able to post all this as an answer to your
question and claim the prize!)
Warm regards
Vinods-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
solar12123-ga
on
17 Dec 2002 08:06 PST
first of all, a wired lavalier will not do since as i stated the
lecturer needs the ability to walk freely. So this leaves the first
question, will i be able to get better sound quality from one of the
wirless setups that you already suggested or a stationary microphone?
second, are the wireless microphone systems that you suggested in
recomendation order? Also, i would like to read reviews for them.
third, i was just thinking about controlling the volume of my
recordings. How will I do this? It would be nice to have atleast
some basic software for this type of recording.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
17 Dec 2002 08:29 PST
Hi,
Even your Windows recorder has volume control. You need to set it at a
level that does not distort when you speak looudly, and does not lose
intellegibility when you are soft. In most cases it is the loud part
that you have to take care of. A recording that is distorted cannot be
rectified, but a low-level recording can be raised to optimum level.
Secondly, I mentioned the ECM series since you said you could be
sitting in one place. In any case it is possible in controlled
conditions (such as yours) to have a cable trailing a person wired
with a lav (lavaliere in short) mic.
Thirdly, I am not too sure if these systems have reviews. These are
niche products and most 'reviews' you will find on the net are by
those who sell them! However, I will try and find you something.
You asked for my personal opinion, and I gave you a list based on
firstly what I have definitely used and found fairly good, and upon
reading features and limiting the price. The list is definitely
top-to-bottom in terms of my recommendation. Some in between are
higher than $500 as you may have noticed. These are not what I have
used, but I know of.
warm regards
vinods-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
solar12123-ga
on
17 Dec 2002 09:20 PST
Sorry, i guess i was unclear. a wired lav will not work so it is
either a wireless lav or a regular mic that i have on my desk.
As far as the reviews go, I do need some method of evaluating the
different systems besides your personal opinion as stated in my
initial question. While you do seem to be very knowledgeable on the
subject, i could not spend this much money on a product recommended by
a person i do not know.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
17 Dec 2002 09:37 PST
Hi,
My experience is based on usage of mics and lots of other equipment in
the toughest conditions. If you have been to a film/documentary shoot
you will know what I am talking about.
There are many companies that make wireless systems, but I have
limited myself only to those who make professional systems that are
used in extremely critical usage conditions, such as in film and
documentary. SENNHEISER is a very reputed company. And so is SHURE and
Audio-Technica.
I would personally consider these companies if I am limited by
budgets. Just 3 days back I used Sennheiser mics on a project.
I will try and find you reviews but I can't promise you anything that
makes it extremely clear that 'Product#1 is better than the rest'.
<<"While you do seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject, I could
not spend this much money on a product recommended by a person I do
not know.">>
While you may feel justified in your doubts, I'm sorry, but that's all
I can offer - my own experience in the field that I work. All I can
say is that I would use this stuff if I had to use it for myself. It
is a matter of coincidence that you found a person like me. I am sure
most Google Answers Researchers are experts in (a) particular line(s)
of work/knowledge, while they are here because they want to exercise
their innate abilities to delve into something that may be very far
away from their usual work/knowledge to be able to find information
and thereby assist a person in need of it but does not have either the
resources to do it on their own.
warm regards
vinods-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
vinods-ga
on
19 Dec 2002 08:30 PST
Hi,
Sorry, but I could not find reviews for you. Other products in the
same line are reviewed, probably because they are more expensive and
more advanced than the ones I had to recommend to you.
If it is imperative that I should recommend only a mic that has a
review AND costing less than $500, it will take up a very large amount
of time, with no guarantees of finding one that may meet these
conditions.
My advice to you would be to go and try one out for yourself. As I had
mentioned before, I can try find you a place near you, if you give me
your location.
warm regards
vinods-ga
|
Hi,
1. RECORDING SOFTWARE
Sonic Foundry Sound Forge is a very good program. With this you can
record 16-bit .WAV format directly onto a hard drive. A minute of MONO
audio will take 5MB of space. Therefore 300 minutes should take
300x5=1500 MB or 1.5 GB. However what you should do is to cut the
recording whenever it is possible and begin a new file. You can later
edit the files with this software which allows great flexibility in
this process.
[ http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/showproduct.asp?PID=668 ]
The price is listed on the Sonic Foundry at $350. As with almost all
software, I am sure one will be able to find a better price.
2. MICROPHONE
There are many mics available in the lower price bracket. But in
my opinion, none of them are absolutely reliable enough to give one
completely
unbroken, or noise-free recording. Wireless audio signals are
susceptible to a number of problems - RF disturbances, loss of signal
due to multi-path reflections, etc., and these problems heighten in an
environment where there is a lot of RF activity. I am sure there will
be a lot of RF in the air where this lecture is to take place.
Low cost wireless mics are non-diversity, meaning single antenna
systems that are definitely not completely reliable. These mics are
used in semi-pro conditions, or on locations only for reference
monitoring. They are never used in critical situations. The more
professional wireless mics use diversity systems which have double
antennas that make sure the possibility of RF 'hits' and any
extraneous RF disturbances will be minimized. However they are
expensive, and start at around $3000.
Considering all these factors, it may be prudent for you to hire a
professional microphone from a sound mixer living in your area. In
fact, he may be able to help you with the setup of your recording
system too. If you feel this is a viable option, you will have to let
me know your location so that I can find you details of an equipment
hire outfit or a sound mixer there.
--------- WIRELESS MICROPHONE SYSTEMS ---------
Around $500 - my choice (decided by personal use)
1. SENNHEISER EW-122P (ask for lavaliere mic instead of headset mic)
[http://buy.sennheiserusa.com/ASP/Sennheiser/pdf/ricksevolution/ew112.pdf
]
(for product description)
[http://www.musiciansbuy.com/sennheiser_evolution_wireless_microphones.htm#EW122
] List Price: $835.00 / Our Price: $499.99
2. AKG WMS80/17
[http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/akg_wms80.html ]
Price $499.00
3. AUDIO TECHNICA ATW-1235-830
[ http://www.equipmentemporium.com/wireless1.htm ] (middle of page)
Equipment Emporium price $525.00
4. SHURE LX14/93
[ http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/lx.html ] Price $579.00
5. Shure ULXS14/93 (WL93 lavaliere mic included)
[ http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/shure_ulx-s.html ] Price $659
6. SHURE TPD/84
[ http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/tseries.html ] $347.00
--------------------
Some reviewed products:
1. Audio Technica U100 ($845 listed)
[ http://www.audio-technica.com/news/press/reviews/PAR_U100Series.pdf]
2. Shure ULX Professional Wireless UHF Microphone System (~$1500)
[ http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/october02/shure_ULX.shtml ]
3. Sennheiser Mikroport Wireless Microphone System (expensive)
[ http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/sponsor_arch/sennheiser/sennheiser_mikroport_397.shtml
]
4. Shure UT series (listed $ 737.50)
[ http://www.crmav.com/live_sound/34/presenter_ut_wireless_system.shtml
]
This one looks very promising in terms of price. It is a very good
system, more than capable of handling your kind of usage.
Audio Technica ATW-U100 series UHF diversity 100 channel professional
ENG system
[ http://www.equipmentemporium.com/wireless1.htm ]
Warm regards to you and a very Happy New Year!
Vinods-ga |
Request for Answer Clarification by
solar12123-ga
on
29 Dec 2002 10:44 PST
I apreciate all the work you have put into this question but you have
totally ignored the price limit. $737 + $350 does not equal $500.
this is totally unusable. the lower qulaity microphones are also
unusable because you did not give me reviews for them.
|
Clarification of Answer by
vinods-ga
on
29 Dec 2002 22:58 PST
Hi,
Here is a light version of Soundforge that will suit your needs well.
It is retailing here for $69.95 and is shipped all over the USA.
[ http://www.minidisco.com/minispecs/soundforge.html ]
I will find you mics with reviews, but they may not be the ones I have
listed to you. In my humble opinion, you should go for the ones I have
listed. Of course, the choice is yours. I will be back with some
reviewed microphones.
Regards
Vinods-ga
|
Clarification of Answer by
vinods-ga
on
29 Dec 2002 23:49 PST
Hi,
Here is a review of the Sennheiser Evolution series. The EW122 is one
in this series that I recommended to you.
[ http://www.guitarworld.com/gearreviews/gear/0209_alive.html ]
A store review of EW122
[ http://www.mics.cc/senewlapwirs1.html ]
EW122 will fall within your price limit.
Warm regards
Vinods-ga
|
