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Q: Latin phrases ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Latin phrases
Category: Reference, Education and News
Asked by: chuckeboy-ga
List Price: $8.00
Posted: 15 Dec 2002 06:39 PST
Expires: 14 Jan 2003 06:39 PST
Question ID: 124908
I'm looking for the Latin version of the phrase "Who shall watch over
the guardians".
Answer  
Subject: Re: Latin phrases
Answered By: leli-ga on 15 Dec 2002 07:39 PST
 
Hello and thank-you for your question.

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  is the phrase you want.

It is variously translated as "Who shall watch over the guardians",
"Who is watching the watchmen?", "Who is guarding the guards?" etc.
Sometimes it is prefixed by the word "sed", meaning 'but'.

It comes from the "Satires" of the Roman writer Juvenal.  Here's one
explanation:

"Who Watches the Watchers?
Historians debate the true meaning of Juvenal’s maxim, “Sed quis
custodiet ipsos custodes?” The Roman satirist often poked fun at the
ruling elite. According to one commentator, Juvenal’s guardians were
the eunuchs left with the women of Rome while the men traveled beyond
the city. Perhaps there is no need to guard such guardians.
But in the modern era, the words are a call for greater transparency
and greater accountability of those in power. Leading economists ask
who will watch the regulators of financial markets. Human rights
groups ask who will police the police. Commentators on technology ask
who will observe those who have the means to observe others."

Observing Surveillance Project
http://www.observingsurveillance.org/introduction.html

Certainly it is appropriate to use the phrase in the context of
corruption, or devising systems to prevent corruption. Juvenal
"constantly compares the corruption of his own generation with its
stern upright forebears," according to the back cover of Peter Green's
translation of Juvenal's work. (see Amazon.com.)

The Sixteen Satires, by Juvenal. Penguin (1999)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140447040/104-4503498-9755908?vi=glance


I hope this is helpful. Please feel free to 'request clarification' if
I can assist further with this.

Regards - Leli




search used (I already knew the phrase):
://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Quis+custodiet+ipsos+custodes%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Clarification of Answer by leli-ga on 15 Dec 2002 07:42 PST
I see I wrote 'prefixed' when I meant 'prefaced'. I hope this didn't
grate on you too much as you read the answer. Apologies.
Comments  
Subject: Who watches the watchmen? - Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347
From: rotsujin-ga on 22 Feb 2003 22:55 PST
 
The phrase "who watches the watchmen" is also a tagline for the
popular 12 issue comic series "Watchmen," a very important piece
published in 1986-1987 by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. ..now available
as a graphic novel.

<a href="http://www.wkonline.com/a/Watchmen_0930289234.htm">A
Website</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/3840/watchmen.html">Another</a>
<a href="http://www.stripteasecomic.com/specials/watchmen2.htm">A
Third</a>

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