Can you identify the different ancient civiliations that would have
said these statements and explain why:

Person 1:"we cannot ultimately control our destiny, but that does not
mean we should give up and resign ourselves merely to blind fate.""we
should not neglect the gods, but I think a man should seek to realize
the potentialities in this life.""It is also important to educate the
young outside of the family, for only in this way can they be fully
prepared to enter actively into the life of the society, which should
be the focus of our own lives.""everything has been made to serve some
purpose. That is the goal we must seek. After all, we do not find
chance creatures being formed from a particular need."

Person 2: "we cannot ignore the signs sent by the gods. Before
embarking on any enterprise, we must offer sacrifices to the gods and
seek their approval.''it is the father's duty to teach his son the
customary ways of doing things.""the purpose of formal education
outside of the family is to train those who will give us insight into
our destiny."

Person 3: "it seens to me the next world must be a continuation of the
serenity of this life.""There is an order inherent in nature. That is
the key to the harmony of this world. But don't forget this order is
also inherent in the customary norms, which should be handed down from
father to son."

The possibilites for these people are (ancient) :  china, india, rome,
greece, or egypt (possibly also mesopatamia or the hebres, but this is
less likely since I have already matched these two with other
statements)

---

Clarification of Question by sahara329-ga on 16 Dec 2002 13:53 PST

the answer to this question should be persuasive in nature. Support
your conclusions with historical fact ( doesn't need to be too
specific).

---

Request for Question Clarification by hlabadie-ga on 27 Dec 2002 12:37 PST

Were the comments posted on Dec. 17 helpful? I see that the question
was time-sensitive. Do you still want an answer?

hlabadie-ga

Dear Sahara 329, 

First of all, I must say from my historical enquiries, that there is
no one answer to your question, as it is also in many other social
sciences and humanities questions. Many cultures and religious
traditions have common features, and your question might be based on
material I have not been exposed to. It is always good, in any case,
to link what's written here to your own knowledge on these cultures,
and to see what may fit and what may not fit your own knowledge.


Person I
========
There are several ancient cultures that could fit the description of
person I (or the quotes attributed to him or her).

It could come from an ancient Hebrew, as it describes a culture, which
is very individualistic, and stresses education and family (which is
the centre pillar of Judaism also today). However, one thing baffles
us, and that is, that Judaism is monotheistic (believes in one God)
and therefore it is impossible that the statement would refer to
"gods". If you other Hebrew definition fits this description, too (and
is not monotheistic), you'll have to judge between them both.

The person speaking is deterministic. However, he is the less
deterministic of the three. He rejects subjection to blind faith; and
thinks that "man should seek to realize the potentialities in this
life.". If the people discussed before, and if we had to draw an
imaginary "determinism scale", I'd put the ancient Egyptians at the
top, and the Romans (and the Hebrews) at the bottom, with Cicero, who
concluded that "for some events fate and determinism rule while for
other categories of events men exercise an amount of free will." (As
summarised in "The Roots of Consciousness: History, Ancient Rome",
<http://www.williamjames.com/History/ROME.htm>). This could be also
said about ancient China, where "Jen" describes the option of free
will (see more about this element in Benjamin Isadore Schwartz's book
"The World of Thought in Ancient China"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0674961919/ltc-political/103-8087450-0946222>).

Regarding education, this person believes in education outside the
family, as a mechanism for better involvement in the society around
us. This does not fit the education in ancient Egypt, as well as much
of the educational system of early ancient India, both of which could
be deducted. The education systems of both is more focused upon
serving divinity, while the education system in ancient Greece was
focused on lyrics and music. The Ancient Chinese and the Ancient
Romans had both education systems. However, the ancient Chinese
stressed family life, and not societal contribution, which fits more
the Romans. (See Ancient China Daily Life -
http://members.aol.com/Donnclass/Chinalife.html)

Last but not least, he claims that nothing should be done in vain -
all has purpose, and nothing should be done in vain. This, I must
agree with our commentator, fits some elements in the Chinese
philosophy.

All in all, an despite some ambiguities, it seems that this person
could have come from ancient China.



Person II
=========
Person II also refers to several things which consist of his
world-view:

First of all, he is much more deterministic and fatalistic as the
former speaker. He says: "We cannot ignore the signs sent by the gods.
Before
embarking on any enterprise, we must offer sacrifices to the gods and
seek their approval.". This reminds us immediately of the oracles in
Delphi, whose duty was to advice private people as well as policy
makers on the right path, favoured by the Gods. Similar determinism
could be found among the Ancient Hindus and Egyptians. The Romans and
the Chinese are, as mentioned before, less deterministic.

Regarding family, the speaker is very paternalistic, and belies in the
father's central role in education and in the family. In general, all
of the ancient societies deprived power from women, but in ancient
Greek and Rome, the father had a special role in education: "A good
Greek or Roman father of the time, would be seen as an overbearing
tyrant today. His role to his son, would best be described as an army
Drill Sergeant. His duty was not only to
provide for his son, but to prepare him to face the harsh realities
of the time. Boys games were often brutal, and a good father was
expected to be harsh with his son. It was the father's role to hone
the survival skills in his son. To make him a winner. Love and
compassion were thought to make a boy weak, and was not to
come from his father. That was the role of a boy's erastes.

A fathers role went much farther. As long as a man's father
was alive, he was under his father's rule. It didn't matter if
the man was 19 or 50 years-old. His father had rule over his
son's family as long as he was alive. Even to his great-great
grandchildren. It was only upon his father's death, that a man
became head of his own house.

When speaking of a father's rule, it goes much farther then
just deciding who a son will or will not marry. The term
"Paterfamilias" describes the head of the family. This was the
father that was head of the family and could even put his wife or
a child to death for a crime. This was the father who controlled
the family and his son's family, etc. until he died. Then the son
(who might already be 60 years old) became the Paterfamilias and
had the absolute authority over the family. Just being a father
didn't bestow the power, but by being the oldest living father in
the father-son-grandson lineage. If you have your father's
grandfather still living, stop and think about it. At that time,
for you to rule your own house and family, your great-grandfather,
your grandfather and your father must all be dead." (Source: Joe Camp,
"My Hadrian Preface"
<http://www.nifty.org/nifty/gay/historical/my-hadrian/my-hadrian>).

Then, we get to education outside the family, and here the role of the
schools, as general educators for the purpose of insight on the
destiny is even more stressed in the Greek schools: "In ancient
Athens, the purpose of education was to produce citizens trained in
the arts, to prepare citizens for both peace and war.. In primary
school, they had to learn two important things - the words of Homer, a
famous Greek epic poet, and how to play the lyre, a musical
instrument. Their teacher, who was always a man, could choose what
additional subjects he wanted to teach. He might choose to teach
drama, public speaking, government, art, reading, writing, math, and
another favourite ancient Greek instrument - the flute.". In ancient
Indian schools, as well, is the role as social/religious socialisation
mechanism "Kids were taught by a guru (a teacher). Even chiefs sons
had to obey the guru. All students followed a rigorous course of
studies which were imparted orally."

In conclusion, this person seems to be of Ancient Greece. 


Person III
==========
Person III begins his discussion by referring to the next world, which
was actually not referred to at all by the former speakers:"It seems
to me the next world must be a continuation of the serenity of this
life." That could indicate that, like the ancient Egyptians, he is
obsessed with the after-life, who "They believed in an afterlife, and
believed that people enjoyed many of the same activities in their
afterlife as they did in their current life. They prepared for their
afterlife by filling their tombs with small and large statutes of
friends and family, and with other items they might need to keep them
company and to help them have a good time in their afterlife! ". (See
http://members.aol.com/donnandlee/index.html).

Law and order, or societal orders, and the role of the father as an
educator is also central to his thought. This also fits Ancient Egypt:
"Some early cosmological myths represented the heavens as a great,
star-studded cow, sometimes called Hathor or Athor, curving above the
earth. Regardless of the different creation myths and ranking of gods,
it is clear that the ancient Egyptian venerated many deities, that
those gods were inherent in nature, and that they enabled the Egyptian
to correlate human, natural, and divine life. " (Source: Ancient
Egyptian Religion, http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/religion.htm).

To sum up, the first person is the most difficult one, but one has to
deduct he comes from ancient China; the second is a Greek and the
third is an Egyptian.

You could read much about these religions and cultures in the
following web-pages:
Ancient Egyptian Culture -
http://emuseum.mnsu.edu/prehistory/egypt/religion/religion.html
Ancient Egyptian Religion - Guardian's Egypt -
http://www.guardians.net/egypt/religion.htm
Religion of Ancient Egypt -
http://www.historylink101.com/1/egypt_1/religion.htm
DMOZ directory - http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/History/By_Topic/Social_History/Religion/Ancient/Egyptian/?il=1

Internet Ancient History Sourcebook: Rome -
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook09.html
Rome Resources - http://www.dalton.org/groups/rome/ 
WWW-VL History Index • Ancient Rome — Religion -
http://www.ku.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/VL/Topics/Religion.htm
Pages Through the Ages: Ancient Rome, religion -
http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/OakViewES/harris/96-97/agespages/rome/religion-rome.html

Internet Ancient History Sourcebook: Greece -
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook07.html
historyforkids - http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/greeks/religion/greekrelig.htm
DMOZ Directory - http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/History/By_Topic/Social_History/Religion/Ancient/Hellenic/?il=1


Ancient China Daily Life -
http://members.aol.com/Donnclass/Chinalife.html
DMOZ - http://directory.google.com/Top/Kids_and_Teens/School_Time/Social_Studies/History/By_Time_Period/Ancient_History/China/?il=1
OUSD > Core Values > Unit 4 > Ancient China > Religion -
http://tlc.ousd.k12.ca.us/library/china/china_religion.html

OUSD > Core Values > Unit 3 > Ancient India > Religion -
http://tlc.ousd.k12.ca.us/library/india/india_religion.html
Ancient India - Religion -
http://www.crystalinks.com/indiareligion.html Ancient India Resources
- http://www.internet-at-work.com/hos_mcgrane/india/eg_india_intro.html

I hope that answered your question. Please contact me if you need any
clarifications on this answer. I searched for you for the history of
each culture, it private and public life, and its religion, to find
out more. I'd be pleased to clarify my answer before you rate it.

---

Request for Answer Clarification by sahara329-ga on 17 Dec 2002 10:07 PST

when you say that the first person is probably chinese, would this
necessarily be true because where in confuscianism or taoism is there
a mention of gods??? These are just philosphys not religions, this is
what kept me from assigning China to this person....so therefore could
you please tell me how the "gods" are talked about, I don't beleive
they are, that is why I was inclined to think this was ancient greece,
but am certainly open to China, but this ambiquity of "gods" just may
not fit. Then again for the greeks, even though their philosphers
liked to philosphsize about why and how everything is mad, I'm not
sure this pans out to everything having a purpose in the Greek's eyes

For the second person, why did you choose Greece over Rome? This
wasn't clearly explained. To my knowledge formal education was more
highly stressed in Greece and at least in early Rome school was less
imporatnt and taught by priests ( gives the idea there was a lot of
religious focus in the schools) the greeks believed in betterment of
self for the good of scoiety as a whole, the romans were more
selective. Also, the priests, specificallt "the college of augars"
took in cosmic signs and their approval of the gods' signs was
required to move forward with government proceedings. This is what led
me to believe Rome for the second, again though I am not nearly
certain and any more concrete proof you could give for the Greeks for
person #2 would be greatly appreciated.

Finally for the thired person I tend to agree the onlt thing that fits
is Egyptian, but did the Egyptians stress "customary norms" being
passed down.

In conclusion, i would just like some more concrete answers, don't say
why it couldn't be this civiliation, just say why it definitely is
this one....also please refer to some general writings (religious or
secular) of the time to support your conclusion. The only writings you
mention are the Illiad and Odyssey and since you didn't believe any of
these people were greek, that really doesn't help me much. As I stated
before, it needs to be persuasive backed by historical fact. Concise,
precise answers are just fine.

---

Clarification of Answer by politicalguru-ga on 17 Dec 2002 11:13 PST

Dear Sahara, 

I am also torn between the Chinese and the Roman in the first case. I
think that the mentioning of gods is important, and when we come to
speak about it, Chinese religion was very much focused on the elements
of nature and of course, on the ancestors. Therefore. I would like to
think about it overnight.

As for the second person, the choice between Greece and Rome is not
only based on the educational system. The Roman educational system was
much more universal, as the Greek one was. The Romans are also less
deterministic and fatalistic, and not every crucial decision making
was determined by a prophecy. This is an important element. I must
admit that determinism + a "religiosly intended" education sounds like
ancient Indian religion to me, but the central role of the father
leads me to believe it is a referrence to either Greeks or Romans and
hence the conlusion on the Greeks.

I'd be pleased to assist you furthermore with queries regarding this
question.

Seasons Greetings, 
Political Guru

The researcher did not give me any concrete answers or even concrete
explanations for why he choses the answers. In the clarification, he
almost completely ignored my request for further info or my questions
on specifically person 1 ( he mixes up greek and rome for gods sake!!)
. he completely ignored my request for historical references and
simply went with large widesweeping and in some case wrong
generaliations about the cultures. Also, I needed this answer by
wednsday and his request to sleep on it is not going to cut it.

did not help at all....generlizations were widesweeping and in some
cases grossly misinformed. Felt like I had to educate the "expert"
researcher.

Person 1 sounds like a person from ancient China,  key identifying
statement being: "everything has been made to serve some purpose" this
closely relates to a chinese saying "Tian Shen Wo Cai Bi Yo Yong" -
literally Heaven Births My Talent for a Purpose.

Person 2 sounds like a person from Ancient Greece.  Checkout Homer's
Illiad, there would be loads of references to scarifices and signs
from Gods etc.

Person 3 sounds like a person from Ancient Egypt.  The belief of Next
World was rife hence the practice of embalming and preparations for
next life.  Check your historical texts on egypt.

just my guesses. but hey I can't get any money anyways as I am not
official researcher 8-)

I could not find any reference to the chinese saying "heven births my
talent for a purpose" on the internet?? If you could please paste a
link for a refernce to this in ancient china, it might help support
the idea that person 1 is in fact chinese.

Since I had already started to look up some material, I might as well
post this much as a comment. I hope that it helps.

   
  Person 1:"we cannot ultimately control our destiny, but that does
not
  mean we should give up and resign ourselves merely to blind
fate.""we
  should not neglect the gods, but I think a man should seek to
realize
  the potentialities in this life.""It is also important to educate
the
  young outside of the family, for only in this way can they be fully
  prepared to enter actively into the life of the society, which
should
  be the focus of our own lives.""everything has been made to serve
some
  purpose. That is the goal we must seek. After all, we do not find 
  chance creatures being formed from a particular need." 


These sentiments are distinctly Aristotelian. Aristotle in "Politics"
(Jowett translation) says, for example, "She (Nature) makes each thing
for a single use, and every instrument is best made when intended for
one and not for many uses." (Bk I.2.) Man is by nature a political
animal in Aristotle's analysis, and the formation of society is his
natural end. "Hence it is evident that the state is a creation of
nature, and that man is by nature a political animal." "Nature, as we
often say, makes nothing in vain... (I.2) (I.8)" In Bk 8.1, he says,
"And since the whole city has one end, it is manifest that education
should be one and the same for all, and that it should be public, and
not private...the training in things which are of common interest
should be the same for all."

Max Lerner in the Introduction to the Modern Library edition of
"Politics" writes, "He was thus in a sense a forerunner of those who
have seen politics as history, and especially those who have seen it
as the unfolding of inner impulses within human society. If there is a
trace of the doctrine of inevitability in this, it is not so much as
to make the whole system rigidly deterministic...The implication is
clear that at each stage there is room for human action and will."
(pp. 20-21)

Plato, Aristotle's teacher, puts these words into the mouth of
Socrates in "The Republic", Bk II.379 (H.D.P.Lee translation).

"Then God, being good, cannot be responsible for everything, as is
commonly said, but only for a small part of human life, for the
greater part of which he has no responsibility."

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.html

Aristotle, Politics, trans. Jowett, Benjamin, edited and with
introduction by Lerner, Max, Modern Library, Random House, New York,
1943

Plato, The Republic, trans. Lee, H.D.P., Penguin, London, 1955
   
  Person 2: "we cannot ignore the signs sent by the gods. Before 
  embarking on any enterprise, we must offer sacrifices to the gods
and
  seek their approval.''it is the father's duty to teach his son the 
  customary ways of doing things.""the purpose of formal education 
  outside of the family is to train those who will give us insight
into
  our destiny." 


This idea is clearly of the Roman Republic. Indeed, the whole civic
life of the Republican Romans was predicated on the observance of the
rituals of Augury and the preservation of the Roman traditions. The
Roman historian Livy related a story about the stature of the augurs
in Rome (Titus Livius, Ab Urbe Condita, Since the Founding of the
City, Bk. 1.36). The king of Rome, Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, called
upon Attus Navius the chief augur to divine what he was thinking.
Navius performed the necessary rituals and replied that the king's
thoughts would be realized. The king then said that he was thinking
that Navius would cut a whetstone in two with a razor. Navius had a
razor and whetstone brought to him and he cut the whetstone in two, as
the king had challenged him to do. Thereafter, the power of the augurs
was such that no public act could be legal unless the augurs had first
obtained the auspices (watching the flight of birds as a form of
divination, a practice acquired from the Etruscans). Livy concludes,
"But whatever we may think of the story, the fact remains that the
importance attached to augury and the augural priesthood increased to
such an extent that to take the auspices was henceforward an essential
preliminary to any serious undertaking in peace or in war; not only
army parades or popular assemblies, but matters of vital concern to
the commonwealth were postponed, if the birds refused their assent."
(Selincourt translation.)

During the Republic, the consuls, the chief executive officers of the
state, were required to take the auspices before assuming office,
calling an assembly for the passage of laws, convening the Senate,
taking an army into the field, or going into battle. Any defect in the
process could result in the act being deemed illegal. In one famous
case at the very end of the Republic, Julius Caesar's colleague in the
consulate, Bibulus, tried to prevent Caesar from acting merely by
declaring that he was watching the heavens for signs. When Caesar
forcibly drove Bibulus out of the Forum, Bibulus took refuge in his
home and refused to emerge during the remainder of his term, merely
issuing edicts that he was watching the skies for portents. This was
sufficient in Roman law to nullify any act by either consul.
(Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, The Deified Julius, XX.)

Story of Tarquin and Navius:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/classics/syllabi/
20023/ARLT100gReligion/LivyBook1.pdf
http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/ PhraseAndFable/data/7.html 
Livy, The Early History of Rome, trans. de Selincourt, Aubrey,
Penguin, London, 1960.

Suetonius, Julius Caesar

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/suetonius-julius.html
   
  Person 3: "it seens to me the next world must be a continuation of
the
  serenity of this life.""There is an order inherent in nature. That
is
  the key to the harmony of this world. But don't forget this order is
  also inherent in the customary norms, which should be handed down
from
  father to son." 

The sentiments expressed here combine tenets of Confucianism, Taoism,
and Buddhism, thus placing the speaker in China. A serenity of the
next life that can be achieved in this life points to the belief in
the attainment of a mind that is balanced and free from desires that
cannot be satisfied, a belief that is common to the three great
religious/philosophical movements found in China. The order of nature
is Taoist, while the customary norms are those of Confucius, who
promoted social order through respect for wisdom, usually found in
one's elders.

Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism:

http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/601_buddhism.htm
http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/601_confucianism.htm
http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/601_taoism.htm

hlabadie-ga

To expand on my pevious comment:

  Person 1:

These sentiments are distinctly Aristotelian. Aristotle in "Politics"
(Jowett translation) says, for example, "She (Nature) makes each thing
for a single use, and every instrument is best made when intended for
one and not for many uses." (Bk I.2.) Man is by nature a political
animal in Aristotle's analysis, and the formation of society is his
natural end. "Hence it is evident that the state is a creation of
nature, and that man is by nature a political animal." "Nature, as we
often say, makes nothing in vain... (I.2) (I.8)"

Max Lerner in the Introduction to the Modern Library edition of
"Politics" writes, "He was thus in a sense a forerunner of those who
have seen politics as history, and especially those who have seen it
as the unfolding of inner impulses within human society. If there is a
trace of the doctrine of inevitability in this, it is not so much as
to make the whole system rigidly deterministic...The implication is
clear that at each stage there is room for human action and will."
(pp. 20-21)

Plato, Aristotle's teacher, puts these words into the mouth of
Socrates in "The Republic", Bk II.379 (H.D.P.Lee translation).

"Then God, being good, cannot be responsible for everything, as is
commonly said, but only for a small part of human life, for the
greater part of which he has no responsibility."

Obviously, man is not an automaton, driven by Fate alone, but has the
power and the responsibility to strive for knowledge and
self-knowledge. It is through self-knowledge that men become good
citizens.

As evidence that both Plato and Aristotle believed that human beings
could affect their own destinies, they each attempted to mold the
characters of future rulers, to create philosopher-kings, Plato in
Syracuse with Dionysius II, and Aristotle in Macedonia with Alexander.
Both philosophers were disappointed with the results.

Plato made public education of the rulers an important feature of his
ideal state, as described extensively in The Republic. Book Two
contains his recommendations for elementary education, including the
famous condemnation of fabulous poetry, while books Five and Six deal
with the latter stages of the rulers' education in philosophy.

Aristotle took up the subject of public education in book VIII of the
Politics. In Bk 8.1, he says, "And since the whole city has one end,
it is manifest that education should be one and the same for all, and
that it should be public, and not private...the training in things
which are of common interest should be the same for all."

The Politics of Aristotle

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.html

Aristotle, Politics, trans. Jowett, Benjamin, edited and with
introduction by Lerner, Max, Modern Library, Random House, New York,
1943

Plato, The Republic, trans, Lee, H.D.P., Penguin, London, 1955
   
  Person 2:

This idea is clearly of the Roman Republic. Indeed, the whole civic
life of the Republican Romans was predicated on the observance of the
rituals of Augury and the preservation of the Roman traditions. The
Roman historian Livy related a story about the stature of the augurs
in Rome (Titus Livius, Ab Urbe Condita, Since the Founding of the
City, Bk. 1.36). The king of Rome, Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, called
upon Attus Navius the chief augur to divine what he was thinking.
Navius performed the necessary rituals and replied that the king's
thoughts would be realized. The king then said that he was thinking
that Navius would cut a whetstone in two with a razor. Navius had a
razor and whetstone brought to him and he cut the whetstone in two, as
the king had challenged him to do. Thereafter, the power of the augurs
was such that no public act could be legal unless the augurs had first
obtained the auspices (watching the flight of birds as a form of
divination, a practice acquired from the Etruscans). Livy concludes,
"But whatever we may think of the story, the fact remains that the
importance attached to augury and the augural priesthood increased to
such an extent that to take the auspices was henceforward an essential
preliminary to any serious undertaking in peace or in war; not only
army parades or popular assemblies, but matters of vital concern to
the commonwealth were postponed, if the birds refused their assent."
(Selincourt translation.)

During the Republic, the consuls, the chief executive officers of the
state, were required to take the auspices before assuming office,
calling an assembly for the passage of laws, convening the Senate,
taking an army into the field, or going into battle. Any defect in the
process could result in the act being deemed illegal. In one famous
case, Julius Caesar's colleague in the consulate, Bibulus, tried to
prevent Caesar from acting merely by declaring that he was watching
the heavens for signs. When Caesar forcibly drove Bibulus out of the
Forum, Bibulus took refuge in his home and refused to emerge during
the remainder of his term, merely issuing edicts that he was watching
the skies for portents. This was sufficient in Roman law to nullify
any act by either consul. (Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, The
Deified Julius, XX.)

Education for the Roman middle and upper class was both public and
private. The male child began his education at home, but soon was sent
daily to the ludus, a grammar school, and in time to a master of
rhetoric. While the Romans adopted the Greek curriculum and teaching
methods, often using Greek slaves as instructors, the Romans several
times banned philosophers from the city and the teaching of philosophy
in Rome in the interest of maintaining the Roman character of their
educational system.

Story of Tarquin and Navius:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/classics/syllabi/
20023/ARLT100gReligion/LivyBook1.pdf
http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/ PhraseAndFable/data/7.html 
Livy, The Early History of Rome, trans. de Selincourt, Aubrey,
Penguin, London, 1960.

Suetonius, Julius Caesar

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/suetonius-julius.html
   
  Person 3: 

The sentiments expressed here combine tenets of Confucianism, Taoism,
and Buddhism, thus placing the speaker in China. A serenity of the
next life that can be achieved in this life points to the belief in
the attainment of a mind that is balanced and free from desires that
cannot be satisfied, a belief that is common to the three great
religious/philosophical movements found in China.

Tao

                      Satisfied with his possessions,
                      the sage eliminates the need to steal;

                      at one with the Tao,
                      he remains free of envy,
                      and has no need of titles.

Buddhism


     The born, come-to-be, produced,
     The made, the conditioned, the transient,
     Conjoined with decay and death,
     A nest of disease, perishable,
     Sprung from nutriment and craving's cord --
     That is not fit to take delight in.

     The escape from that, the peaceful,
     Beyond reasoning, everlasting,
     The not-born, the unproduced,
     The sorrowless state that is void of stain,
     The cessation of states linked to suffering,
     The stilling of the conditioned -- bliss.


     Having known the escape from sensual desires
     And the overcoming of forms,
     One whose energy is always ardent
     Reaches the stilling of all formations.

     Such a bhikkhu who sees rightly
     Is thereby well released.
     Accomplished in knowledge, at peace,
     That sage has overcome all bonds.

Confucianism


The Master said, "The superior man, in the world, does not set his
mind either for anything, or against anything; what is right he will
follow." 


The order of nature is Taoist, while the customary norms are those of
Confucius, who promoted social order through respect for wisdom,
usually found in one's elders.

Of Nature and the lesson that it gives of Tao, in the Tao Te Ching,
Lao Tzu says,

                      Nature acts without intent,
                      so cannot be described
                      as acting with benevolence,
                      nor malevolence to any thing.

                      In this respect, the Tao is just the same,
                      though in reality it should be said
                      that nature follows the rule of Tao.

Of Society and individual behavior, Confucius says,


The Master said, "While a man's father is alive, look at the bent
of his will; when his father is dead, look at his conduct. If for
three years he does not alter from the way of his father, he may be
called filial." 

The philosopher Yu said, "In practicing the rules of propriety, a
natural ease is to be prized. In the ways prescribed by the ancient
kings, this is the excellent quality, and in things small and great
we follow them. 

The philosopher Yu said, "When agreements are made according to what
is right, what is spoken can be made good. When respect is shown
according
to what is proper, one keeps far from shame and disgrace. When the
parties upon whom a man leans are proper persons to be intimate with,
he can make them his guides and masters." 

Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism:

http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/601_buddhism.htm
http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/601_confucianism.htm
http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/readers/601_taoism.htm

Tao Te Ching (Dao De Jing):
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/taoism/ttcstan3.htm

Analects of Confucius

http://classics.mit.edu/Confucius/analects.mb.txt

Sayings of the Buddha

http://www.vipassana.com/canon/khuddaka/itivuttaka/iti-b.php


hlabadie-ga

I agree with the analysis of hlabadie, and would have voted for 1.
Greece, 2. Rome and 3. China simply from the way the concepts are
expressed in the question.  Person 3 is certainly not from Ancient
Egypt.  The Egyptians derived their concept of order not from nature
but from the Zep Tepi, the "First Time".  This was an archetypal
period, when the gods walked the earth.  It was seen as being outside
of time, constantly active rather than historical.  One of the
functions of the pharaoh was to re-establish contact with the Zep Tepi
and thus to re-establish social order and justice (maat).  Thus, the
other world served as a template for this world.  The concepts
expressed in 3 are exactly the opposite, with this world being a
template for the other world.