What is the cheapest, smallest, most powerful computer of at least
500mhz available today (December 2002)?

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Request for Question Clarification by feilong-ga on 20 Dec 2002 11:34 PST

Hardwaresman, may I ask:

What kind of computer are you looking for? Desktop or notebook
computer? Is it Mac or PC?

How do you define cheap? Can you set a price please?

"...at least 500mhz" - Do you have preference as to what type of
processor? Intel, AMD, or others?

-Feilong

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Clarification of Question by hardwaresman-ga on 20 Dec 2002 13:27 PST

Hi,

I am looking for a small computer that can run a linux core with
vision processing software for long periods without user intervention?
Any processor will do as long as it can process at least 500
megaflops. The price should be as cheap as possible maybe under $100
to $150 dollars. If this is not possible then I want to know what the
cheapest is anyway. The computer is required for stand-alone operation
for long periods of time untended and so has to be robust hence the
need for a linux operating system or something similarly robust.

regards,

David

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Request for Question Clarification by haversian-ga on 23 Dec 2002 10:39 PST

Cheap and robust are mutually exclusive.

You can get a motherboard, RAM, CPU, heatsink, bootable media (hard
drive, flash, etc.) for under $150 that will suit your needs, but it
won't be terribly robust.  You probably won't even get a case for that
price.

For robustness, you will want a system with as few moving parts as
possible.  You can get low-power CPUs that require no fan, just a
heatsink.  You can get chipsets sans fans, power supplies sans fans,
and a flash card to boot from so there's no hard drive spinning
around.  That gets a bit pricier though, and finding a small case to
put it in will cost money too.

There are small form factor computers that would suit your needs; for
example, the mini-ITX standard.  A board and CPU are about $150 (
http://www.mini-itx.com/store/default.asp?c=2#p101 ); add RAM, a case,
and that flash card, and you'll have yourself a machine that should
last years.  Not as cheap as you'd like though.

So, what gives?  Reliability, or price?

Alternately, you could rephrase your question to ask for the most
reliable computer satisfying your 500M FLOPS requirement available for
$150 or less.

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Clarification of Question by hardwaresman-ga on 23 Dec 2002 12:30 PST

The computer should be able to run a Linux core and carry out at least
500mflops. It also needs to be as robust as possible for the price.

thanks,

hardwaresman

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Request for Question Clarification by mathtalk-ga on 23 Dec 2002 17:34 PST

Hi, hardwaresman:

Some of your earlier comments on two previously rejected answers have
been removed along with those answers.  Would you please restate those
comments, esp. regarding size of a satisfactory system?

thanks in advance,
mathtalk-ga

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Request for Question Clarification by funkywizard-ga on 23 Dec 2002 19:19 PST

Previously it was mentioned that the computer in question could not be
a used pc, it must be new and must be approximately 3.5 * 3.5 cm in
size. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hello:

From the discussion I assume that you are looking for a very small
computer that can run a Linux core and at the same time is
inexpensive. From my extensive research on the topic I have come out
with some interesting answers that I will like to share with you.
Please note that in answering your question, I have taken into account
the specifications that you require from the computer.

The answer to the world's smallest, powerful computer that can also
run a Linux core is TIQIT eighty three by Tiqit computers (also in
Guinness Book of World records). It is introduced in the US markets in
the fourth quarter of year 2002. The only drawback to this computer
when comparing it with your desired specifications is that is retail
price ranges from $1000 to $1500 and it has 300 MHz. For more
Information please visit http://www.tiqit.com.

Another computer that comes close to your specifications is Samsung
Yopy Linux PDA which is also among the world's smallest. Although it
is much cheaper than the Tiqit computer but just like the Tiqit eighty
three, it has a low MHZ speed.

So what about your specification? You can look at some of the world's
most powerful Mini PC's that can be connected to any computer screen
are EZ GO ePC2, BoldData Mini PC and Pocket Mini-PC TX1/TX3. They are
all very powerful computers and can fulfill all of your requirements.
The EZ GO can run the Linux core but I am not sure about the other
two. Specifications of these computers can be found at the following
address:

EZ GO 
http://www.ibuypower.com/product-pc/pocket-epc2.htm
http://www.spygy.com/en/ezgo
Bold Data Mini PC Series
http://www.boldata.com/html/minipc.cfm
Pocket Mini-PC TX1 Specification  
http://www.bixnet.com/amdk7com.html

The world's smallest powerful notebooks are Sony VAIO PCG-UA and
Fujitsu's LifeBook P Series. More information about these notebooks
can be found at:

Fujitsu's LifeBook P Series
http://us.fujitsu.com/news/PR/BuvveCAm5z.html
Sony VAIO PCG-UA
http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml

In short the specified computers are your best bet to get the required
specifications in one system.

Hope you will find the above information useful. Please clarify if you
have any further questions. Thank You.

Sincerely,
leader-ga

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Request for Answer Clarification by hardwaresman-ga on 27 Dec 2002 16:59 PST

Hi leader-ga,

Thanks for trying but the price of the systems you suggest is 2 or 3
times too much. We are trying to find something cheaper and we need
more power for that price. You pointed out some pretty cool computers
but we need something smaller and cheaper. I notice that one of the
comments by Snapanswer-ga points out a PDA/Cell phone board that may
be good enough it is cheap and about 500 MHz. I will try to source
these at a good price.
Thanks for trying and good luck,

hardwaresman-ga

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Clarification of Answer by leader-ga on 28 Dec 2002 12:28 PST

Hello:

Thanks very much for clarifying. I am looking into your inquiry. 

Sincerely,

leader-ga

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Clarification of Answer by leader-ga on 31 Dec 2002 08:57 PST

I am still working on your question. (12:00 EST) Dec 31. Please expect
an answer within three days. Thank You.

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Clarification of Answer by leader-ga on 04 Jan 2003 08:49 PST

Hello:

Sorry I am unable to find a computer for your requirements. I have
send emails to some professionals regarding your question. As soon as
I have a reasonable answer i will post it here.

Thanks Again.

leader-ga

Hi, David and other interested researchers:

I find it very difficult to believe that "3.5 cm x 3.5 cm
motherboards" are becoming standard in Taiwan or anyplace else.  The
size quoted is almost exactly that of a low-voltage Pentium III
microprocessor:

http://www.intel.com/design/pentiumiii/designgd/27367502.pdf

Perhaps inches, rather than centimeters, were intended?  In any case,
these are intended to do all that a regular PC can:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/handhelds/5a98/

priced at roughly $1,000 with dimensions 6 inch x 5.75 inch x 2.25
inch.

I may have seen some handheld MP3 players advertised by the same folks
that run a Unix shell, but I can't find them now.  In any case these
were obviously not intended for intensive unattended operation, but
rather for intermittent use as combination media-players and data
transports.

Your price range sounds like a bare box (power supply, case, &
motherboard) wo CPU or RAM.  Here's one listed for $160:

http://store.yahoo.com/newegg/11-153-003.html

but the footprint is more like 12 inches by 12 inches.

regards, mathtalk-ga

I suspect you are curious about the types of computers in cell phones
and PDA devices that run Linux (embedded Linux).  Unfortunately, I
think these devices (with the exception of the Alchemy) run in the
range of 200Mhz to 400Mhz.
I did come across the (formerly Alchemy Semiconductor) AMD Alchemy AU
series running at 500Mhz, Package: 324 PBGA, 23 x 23 mm.

AMD Alchemy AU Processor Family
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330_6625,00.html

Also, this product may be of interest to you.  Less than $100 in
volume.
TechSol Medallion 4" x 4" $1000 for 1, $100 in volume, Linux
preinstalled
http://www.tekgear.ca/product.cfm?sku=0187

The "standard" is PC/104 which is a 3.6" x 3.8" board.  There are
smaller devices available following the links below.  One form factor
you may want to investigate further is the DIMM-PC standard at 4cm x
6.8cm, however they tend to be much slower than your specification.
These sites may be of interest to you:

Linux System On A Chip (SOC) Quick Reference
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4313418436.html

Little Linux Systems for Projects
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2016997232.html

Linux Embedded Single Board Computers (SBC) Quick Reference
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2614444132.html

Tiny SBCs for Linux Projects (2" x 2" - 4" x 4")
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8498487406.html

DIMM-PC devices (4cm x 6.8cm)
http://www.siliconpenguin.com/Hardware/X86_Based_Products/DIMM-PC/

Finally, some additional industry links to round out the list:
http://alllinuxdevices.com/

http://www.embedded.com/

http://www.embedded-linux.org/


You may also be interested in the mini-ITX platform (or, maybe I just
am).  The motherboards are 17cm x 17cm.  I've seen CPUs for it at
933Mhz and the boards are loaded with Firewire, USB 2.0, SVideo Out,
RCA Video Out, VGA Out, MPEG2 Decoder, and 3D graphics chipset.  $150.

Still may be too big for you, but, these are mainstream products
available for easy purchase, so I thought I would at least mention it.
 For information on the platform and some fun projects people have
done with it, check out the following web site (don't miss the guy who
stuffed a computer into ET):
http://www.mini-itx.com/

Thanks Snapanswer-ga,

I am very interested in some of your suggestions and I am following
them up. I suspect the solution may be indeed with PDA/Cellphone
chips/boards.

hardwaresman-ga