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Q: Salome - She of the Seven Veils ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Salome - She of the Seven Veils
Category: Relationships and Society > Religion
Asked by: probonopublico-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 01 Jan 2003 04:29 PST
Expires: 31 Jan 2003 04:29 PST
Question ID: 135915
Salome is not mentioned by name in the Bible and Flavius Josephus has
been attributed as having fingered her as Salome, but I can't find any
mention by Josephus to the lady in question, although there were
several other Salomes.

So, what was the name of the young woman who really danced for Herod?

(It's my bet that Herod would have killed John the Baptist anyway)
Answer  
Subject: Re: Salome - She of the Seven Veils
Answered By: scriptor-ga on 01 Jan 2003 07:22 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear probonopublico,

Given that the biblical story as told in the New Testament (Matthew
14:1-14:12; Mark 6:14-6:29) is true, the young noblewoman's name
really was Salome.

These are the corresponding lines written by the historian Flavius
Josephus in his "Antiquities of the Jews", Book XVIII, Chapter 5:

"But Herodias, their sister, was married to Herod [Philip], the son of
Herod the Great, who was born of Mariamne, the daughter of Simon the
high priest, who had a daughter, Salome; after whose birth Herodias
took upon her to confound the laws of our country, and divorced
herself from her husband while he was alive, and was married to Herod
[Antipas], her husband's brother by the father's side, he was tetrarch
of Galilee; but her daughter Salome was married to Philip, the son of
Herod, and tetrarch of Trachonitis(...)"

So it is clear that Herodia's daughter was named Salome. The footnotes
to the NIV Study Bible provide additional information on Herodias:

"Herodias: A granddaughter of Herod the Great. First she married her
uncle, herod Philip (Herod the Great also had another son named
Philip), who lived in Rome. While a guest in their home, Herod Antipas
persuaded Herodias to leave her husband for him. Marriage to one's
brother's wife, while the brother was still living, was forbidden by
the Mosaic law."

So the background is clear. Though Flavius Josephus is the only
surviving source for Salome's name, we have no reason to mistrust him.
Given that Herodias had only one daughter, and given that this
daughter really danced for Herod, it must have been Salome.

But, and this might be interesting: There is some evidence in the
Bible itself that Salome did never ask Herod to actally execute John
the Baptist, neither did Herod so just because of his "stepdaughter's"
dance. In Mark 6:14 ff., we read:

"Some were saying, 'John the Baptist has been raised from the dead,
and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.' (...) But when
Herod heard this, he said, 'John, the man I beheaded, has been raised
from the dead.' (...) On his birthday Haerod gave a banquet. (...)
When the daughter of Herodias [Salome] came in and danced, she pleased
Herod and the guests. The king said to the girl, 'Ask me for anything
you want' (...) She went out and said to her mother, 'What shall I ask
for?' 'The head of John the Baptist,' she [Herodias] answered. At once
the girl hurried in to the king with the request: 'I want you to give
me right now the head of John the Baptist on a platter.'"

What does this show us? When Salome danced for Herod, Herod had John
the Baptist already beheaded. What Herodias wanted was not the
execution - only the head. Maybe there are old ideas of magic behind
it; many ancient cultures believed that the power of extraordinary men
is, even after they died, resident in their skulls, and that Herodias
after she heard what people were saying about the obviously magical
resurrection of John wanted his head to get a share of this powers. We
don't know for sure. But one thing is clear: Mark does not blame
Herodias and her daughter for being guilty of John the Baptist's
death. For Mark, it was Herod and no one else who had the Baptist
executed even before anything else happened.
By the way: Flavius Josephus does not mention the banquet and Salome's
dance at all.

Sources:

The Works of Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVIII
http://www.raptureme.com/resource/fj/ant-18.htm

Pfarrgemeinde Pressbaum: Neues Testament - Die Femme fatale der
Christenbibel, by Hannes Daxbacher, 2002 (in German!)
http://web.utanet.at/kirche25/NT.htm

The NIV Study Bible, published by Zondervan, 1995. ISBN 0-310-92588-6

Search terms used:
salome "flavius josephus" herodias
://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&q=salome+%22flavius+josephus%22+herodias&meta=
"johannes der täufer" salome herodes flavius
://www.google.de/search?q=%22johannes+der+t%C3%A4ufer%22+salome+herodes+flavius&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=de&meta=

Hope this answers your question!
Best regards and a Happy New Year,
Scriptor
probonopublico-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00
Absolutely brilliant!

Much more than I asked for ... And fascinating stuff, too.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Salome - She of the Seven Veils
From: pugwashjw-ga on 30 Jun 2003 10:32 PDT
 
At that time, Herod was the King of Judea and was born a jew. Pontius
Pilate was the GOVERNOR of Judea and a roman citizen believing in the
pantheon of Roman gods, The Bible gives a very good description of the
events contributing to and leading up to Jesus being executed. The
Hebrew word wrongfully translated as cross [ crux] really is "torture
stake". A single pole. Any tree trunk would do the Romans. Bit it was
the Jewish religious leaders who wanted Jesus done away with. Herod
knew that if he had John the Baptist [ Baptiser] killed, he would
create martyr, which could lead to civil disturbance. Jerusalem at the
time was a hotbed of Jews wishing to throw off the Roman yoke, with
their harsh taxes, and Herod wanted peace and quiet and no trouble
from the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate. But Herod  was besotted by
Salome and wanted her favours more than he wanted a peaceful Kingdom,
and so John the Baptiser was beheaded. If Salome had not been around,
Herod would have given John a whipping as an example to others and
sent him off back to the wilderness.
Subject: Re: Salome - She of the Seven Veils
From: probonopublico-ga on 30 Jun 2003 11:21 PDT
 
Hi, pugwashjw

Many thanks for your interesting comment.

Fascinating stuff!

Of course, there's a cult called the Johannites who are still extant
and who believe that John was the real Messiah and that it was Jesus
who had him beheaded.

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