Clarification of Answer by
tutuzdad-ga
on
02 Jan 2003 18:00 PST
Dear ulsterman-ga;
I would have been happy to explain my response to your satisfaction if
given the opportunity PRIOR to your rating, as the feature intended,
but even though you have already judged my answer I will gladly
expound on it in order to make certain that both you, and “carnegie”
(who, by the way, is a guest and not a Google Answers researcher) will
be comletely satisfied with your Google Answers experience.
First, let me address the “Irish citizens” comment by “carnegie” which
was erroneously attributed to me on 02 Jan 2003 12:48 PST, and that
most likely added to the confusion rather than providing an
enhancement:
If you review my answer, you will see that at NO TIME did I use the
term “Irish citizens” as part of my answer. This assertion by
“carnegie” is clearly incorrect. I did however, use the term “citizens
of Ireland” which is a grammatically correct reference for “those who
live in the land of Ireland”, (taken directly from an Irish site) and
implies no allegiance or status; just as the phrase “citizens of the
world”, a neutral expression for “human beings living on the earth”,
implies no specific affiliation with any particular region or
government.
The search terms that you found vexing are being taken literally as
information but they are not intended to provide anything more that
searchable terms that you can repeat in order to confirm the method
that I used to retrieve my data. The fact that this collection of
words produced a successful search bears no resemblance to factual
meaning whatsoever. That is to say, that these words, when used in
Google’s search engine, were simply a convenient method of producing a
satisfactory return the specific information that I was seeking. In
simpler terms, I chose to use this phrase because others, who do not
have a proper understanding of British citizenship, also use the
Internet, and in doing so they often place keywords and key phrases
(called “meta tags”) on their sites that respond to certain words and
phrases, however incorrect or absurd they may be. They do not reflect
my own personal understanding of the matter whatsoever. They are
merely terms upon which one can search and receive meaningful data, as
you can clearly see by performing the search yourself. In some search
engines (minus the brackets, of course) one would have to type these
words separated by commas: [Are, Irish, Citizens, British, Subjects].
This is not necessary in using Google, as the search engine is rather
intelligent and assumes that a space indicates a comma. As I used it
in Google: [Are Irish Citizens British Subjects] it is not only
correct but as you can see it is also fully functional. Each word in
the phrase was instrumental in causing the data I needed to return to
me in the fashion that I intended. The proof can be seen in the fact
that it produced the data I was seeking.
As for your statement about, “YES and NO”, in my answer, I admit, it
may have sounded a bit vague at first glance, but if you’ve read the
resources I’ve provided for you, you will see that in some instances,
someone from Northern Ireland CAN fall into one or more of the
categories of British citizenry, while others in Northern Ireland, may
not – depending upon their individual set of circumstances.
I will attempt to explain the relationships between the categories and
you will see exactly how complicated this really is, citing
http://www.reform.org/passports.htm:
BRITISH CITIZENS: “All British citizens have the 'right of abode' in
the UK, but only a small proportion of other British nationals have
this right. A few citizens of Commonwealth countries also have it.”
THE RIGHT OF ABODE: “The 'right of abode' is an unqualified right to
enter, live and remain in the United Kingdom. People holding UK
permanent residence (Indefinite Leave to Remain) do not hold this
right, nor do citizens of other EU countries (including Irish
citizens).”
I should probably ad here that the phrase “Irish citizens” mentioned
above is a DIRECT QUOTE from this site
http://www.reform.org/passports.htm which originated from the Republic
of Ireland and is not my own phrase, by the way.
BRITISH NATIONALS: These include all British citizens, British
Dependent Territories citizens (BDT’s), British Overseas citizens,
British Nationals (Overseas) and British subjects. (All British
citizens are British nationals, but not all British nationals are
British citizens.)
COMMONWEALTH CITIZENS: “From 1949 to 1962, all Commonwealth citizens,
whether they were citizens of the UK and Colonies, British subjects
without citizenship, or citizens of Commonwealth countries, had this
right. From 1962, even citizenship of the UK and Colonies did not in
itself give automatic access to the UK. The British Nationality Act
1981 restored the link between UK citizenship and immigration rights
by granting British citizenship only to those citizens of the UK and
Colonies with the 'right of abode' in the UK. Other citizens of the UK
and Colonies were granted subsidiary categories of British nationality
such as British Overseas citizenship which give no right to enter and
live in the UK.”
BRITISH SUBJECTS: “Part of the confusion between British citizenship
and British subject status stems from the fact that the definition of
British subject has changed over the years. Prior to 1949, a British
subject was what a British citizen is today, except it was in an
Empire-wide context (which included the then Irish Free State).
Following on the desire of many Dominions to create their own national
citizenships (Canada had done so in 1947) it was agreed in the late
1940s that each Commonwealth country would have its own citizenship,
and that everybody holding the citizenship of one or more Commonwealth
countries would also be regarded as a British subject. The British
Nationality Act 1948 created a citizenship of the UK and Colonies for
those people who had a link to the UK (as it was in 1948) and the
colonies which were British at the time. Citizens of the UK and
Colonies, as well as citizens of all Commonwealth nations had the
collective status of 'British subject' under the law in both the UK
and other Commonwealth nations.“
Are you a British Subject is you were born in Northern Ireland?
As you can see, the answer is, perhaps YES or perhaps NO – depending
upon your circumstances (referring to my earlier answer: “…depending
upon a variety of circumstances such as lineage, date and year of
birth, location at the time of birth and political status among
others.”)
HERE’S HOW IT WORKS
“If you were born before 1 January 1983, the answer is yes (unless
your father was an Irish diplomat).”
“If you were born on or after 1 January 1983, the position is more
complex. You will be automatically British if one of your parents was
a British citizen (but not a British subject) at the time of your
birth. This applies whether they had a British passport or not.”
“If neither parent was a British citizen, you will still be British
automatically if either of your parents was 'settled' in the UK. This
is defined as being ordinarily resident and having permission to stay
indefinitely in the UK. Irish citizens are given this permission
automatically, so the only issue would be whether your parents were
living in Northern Ireland at the time you were born. If that was the
case, then you are British automatically, if not (eg they were on
holidays) then you will not be British from birth.”
“If your parents later went to live in the UK, you could apply to
register as a British citizen up to your 18th birthday.”
Now, I hope I have done this information some justice and also
clarified any obviously misconstrued or misinterpreted information,
such as that provided by our friend “carnegie”. In the future, you can
ask for clarification from any research prior to rating the answer
provided and he/she will gladly explain the meaning of anything that
appears unclear.
I hope you Google Answers experience was an enjoyable and meaningful
one.
Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga
