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Q: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4 ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   23 Comments )
Subject: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
Category: Relationships and Society > Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual
Asked by: redosam-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 05 Jan 2003 02:36 PST
Expires: 04 Feb 2003 02:36 PST
Question ID: 137715
I have found out lately that my brother is a homosexual and I want to
help him to become a normal person.

how can I help him to become a normal male rather than a Homosexual?
where can I find a psychologist or physicians that I could consult 
over the net to help with this problem?
Where else can I find help?
Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem?

Please answer by showing solutions and not by telling me that there is
nothing wrong of him being a homosexual.

Some info about him:
he is 27 years , married and father of a 3 years old boy.
- He is willing to seek help and become a normal person.
- He was abused sexually when he was a chilled.
- He lives in the Medal East.
- What I know so far that he is the receiving party (others practice
sex on him) I am not sure if he dose it back to them.

P.S.  I am posting this question more than once to get help from more
than one person.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
Answered By: ragingacademic-ga on 05 Jan 2003 05:50 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
Dear redosam,

Thanks for your question.  First, let me request that if any of the
following is unclear or if you require any further research – please
don’t hesitate to ask me for a clarification.

You asked whether male homosexuality is a physical problem or a
psychological problem.  I won’t give you a politically correct answer;
rather, I will try and provide you with some background and advice
supported by some research that I will direct you to.

I think that the correct answer to your question is “both.” 
Homosexuality is both a physical as well as a psychological issue. 
Typically, when discussing a specific individual, it will be either
one or the other.  Given the description of your brother, I believe
that it is a physical issue, or more correctly a medical (genetic or
biochemical) issue.  This is unfortunate for you, because this kind of
homosexuality is harder to reverse.

Until the 1970s, homosexuality was considered to be a mental disorder

It was eliminated from the DSM in 1973 –

…due mostly to political pressure and lobbying from gay activist
groups that were gaining strength throughout the hyper-liberal 1960s.

If you think for a minute about what a mental disorder is – it is,
basically, a behavioral deviation from the normal.  For example,
claustrophobia is a mental disorder because most of us are NOT afraid
of enclosed spaces.  However, if a certain behavior is driven by
genetic or biochemical factors, then the cause for the deviation is
not mental at all.  This is why the physical type of homosexuality is
not considered to be a mental disorder.

What do I mean by genetic or biochemical factors?

Let’s first discuss the other kind of homosexuality, the psychological
(or psychosocial) kind.

Especially in the US over the last few years, in certain circles,
being gay has become “cool” – see for example –

As the gay community grew and became more sophisticated and accepted,
it began drawing the same kind of individuals who picked up smoking in
high school because they were looking for acceptance.  The gay
community typically embraces its members, and many of us seek that
kind of closeness, especially with the deterioration of the family as
an organic unit.  This created a self-reinforcing cycle – as the gay
community grew, its social draw increased.

But the profile you have drawn does not paint a picture of an
individual who is seeking acceptance.  Your brother is a family man,
married, with a child.  I therefore suspect that your brother’s case
is driven either by a hormonal imbalance or by genetics.  The
following source discusses all of the biological causes of
homosexuality in depth –

This manuscript was written by members of the Vernon Johns Society, a
fairly liberal group that seeks truth rather than political

The main thrust of your request is to understand how you can help your
brother abandon his homosexual urges; from what you write, it sounds
like your brother is interested in pursuing this path.  You need to
make sure that this is so, because if the “correctional” path will
frustrate him, he may become a very depressed person, or worse.

The following source discusses studies on the subject of conversion of
homosexuals to a heterosexual lifestyle.

As you will note, therapy – or, so-called “reparative therapy” - is
not a very promising path.  However, there is really no other
reasonable path that your brother can take if he cannot control his
homosexual urges by himself.  There is no miracle drug that will
change his sexual preference.

There are religious groups that attempt to convert gays
(transformational ministries) – for example, see –

The following page discusses treatment of homosexuals –

And here is an article that discusses conversion therapy at length and
is written by a practicing, licensed psychologist who is also a
Professor of Psychology at the University of North Texas –

I hope this response adequately addresses your request.  Please let me
know if you are in need of additional information concerning this


Search Strategy:

converting a homosexual heterosexual
"converting a homosexual"
"medical factors" homosexuality
redosam-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thank you very much for your answer.

Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: aceresearcher-ga on 05 Jan 2003 03:56 PST

Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle" or a "choice" -- it just is.
Whether you like it or not, your brother IS a normal person. Rather
than attempting to persuade or coerce your brother into trying to
change, I encourage you to seek counseling to help you acquire
acceptance of your brother for who he actually is, rather than the
person you would like him to be.


Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: tehuti-ga on 05 Jan 2003 04:38 PST
If your brother is married and a father, it may be that he is actually
bisexual. If that is indeed the case, the most important thing is that
he knows all about safe sex, since he needs to protect not only
himself but also his wife from the possibility of HIV infection.

As to the rest, I agree with aceresearcher. Homosexuality is a
"problem" to those who make it into one.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: dannidin-ga on 05 Jan 2003 07:04 PST
one thing about your answer, ragingacademic: you state that a mental
disorder is a behavioral deviation from the normal. however, i doubt
that you would refer to someone who is, let's say, exceptionally
smart, as having a mental disorder, even though this is clearly a
deviation from the normal. this is because being smart is considered
as "good". the people who think homosexuality is a disorder,
regardless of whether its origins are psychological, genetical,
biochemical or whatnot (and the truth is that the "nature vs. nurture"
issue is far from being resolved and nobody has yet come up with any
conclusive evidence either way), are the people who think
homosexuality is "bad". it is the moral judgement that makes this such
a touchy and delicate issue.

so to you, redosam-ga, i have this advice: consider first the
possibility of "curing" your brother's condition. i believe there is
scant evidence that it is at all possible to cure homosexuality, and
if yes then at a great price to personal happiness. and should you
ever come to terms with the futility of trying to cure your brother, i
encourage you to explore your inner reasons for wanting to cure him.
homosexuality does not hurt anyone. (it may have hurt the wife that
your brother abandoned, but she would be similarly hurt if he abandons
her for another woman.) the only reasons for objecting to
homosexuality that i don't think i can argue with (even if i still
disagree) are religious reasons, i.e. that it is a crime against god.
if these are your reasons then i hope that you can still accept your
brother as he is and realize that he did not choose to have this

Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: journalist-ga on 05 Jan 2003 09:49 PST
Also, consider this theory: bisexuality is physically natural and
"being straight" is merely a product of environmental example
resulting from religious dogma - that's another possibility to

I believe that anyone, whether straight, bisexual or homosexual,
should take protection precautions when having sexual relations with a
partner, and I am in agreement with my fellow Researchers in the
comments - "Homosexuality is a 'problem' to those who make it into
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: googlenut-ga on 05 Jan 2003 10:38 PST
I think the theory that Journalist brings up is a very interesting
one.  In all of the discussions of homosexuality, that's one I haven't
seen explored.

I would I have to add that I also do not believe that homosexuality is
a problem.

Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: ragingacademic-ga on 05 Jan 2003 12:48 PST
comment to dannidin -

You make valid arguments.
Please note, however, that my emphasis is on BEHAVIORAL deviation from
the normal, as I point out in my reply.

Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: jumpingjoe-ga on 14 Jan 2003 10:28 PST
redosam - 

The quality of discussion here so far is high, and you would do well
to consider the points raised. It's very unlikely you will find a
psychologist or counsellor that's both professionally qualified and
will attempt to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

However, your brother may find counselling very helpful in realising
his own feelings. Whatever he realises about his true nature, it will
be easier for him if he has someone to guide him through it.

It could be that his sexual activity with men is a temporary state of
affairs and that after some time he may return to heterosexual
behaviour. It's also possible that he will continue to practice gay
sex, and ultimately incorporate other aspects of gay lifestyle into
his routine.

You have to be prepared for both of those possibilities. If your
brother is gay, then he will still be your brother The chances are
that there's nothing you can do to alter his behaviour, but one
guarantee is that he'll be happier and safer if you are there to
support and love him.


re the discussion about disorder and deviation, I think the problem so
far is that we're viewing them as synonymous. Deviation simply means
going a different way, whereas disorder has an implied negativity.
Deviation from normal behaviour can be a very precious thing, but you
would never describe someone who roll their tongue ( )as having a disorder . That
person has physically deviated from the norm, but this is not a
negative deviation. So whether or not homosexuality is a 'disorder'
simply depends on whether you regard it as negative, positive, or
simply different.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: ghotiman-ga on 21 Jan 2003 07:51 PST
Dear redosam,

I think you are doing the right thing by seeking help for your
brother.  Whether or not homosexuality is a choice, deviation, or
disorder does not make it right.  Consider alcoholism; no one would
say one should be an alcoholic just because he was born with those
tendencies.  Especially in your brother's case since he has a family. 
Any sexual relations outside of marriage are wrong and do hurt many
people.  Contrary to dannidin, I would say that homosexuality does
hurt very many people.  Consider epidemics such as AIDS, and in this
case your brother's family.  Also, I don't believe that an action is
right just because it promotes happiness.  I think living an upright
life is more important than personal or corporate happiness.

Alway remember that you must love your brother, which I think you do. 
Sometimes love calls for consoling and being there for him.  Other
times it calls for rebuke.  e.g. You yell at your child so he does not
touch a hot stove.

Best wishes in your endeavour redosam,
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: omega025-ga on 12 Feb 2003 15:22 PST
Quite frankly, I find your response to your brother's homosexuality,
disgusting.  It's infuriating, and it does nothing but assist in the
exposure of widespread homophobia.  I will list my comments below:

One.]  There ARE no normal people.  Heteros, homos and those in
between, are all abnormal, because there IS no such thing as a normal
person, or being normal.  We modern-day humans have distorted the
meaning of that word far too much.  But regardless of your
orientation, you're a PERSON, and that's all that matters.

Two.]  If you do manage to find a psychologist or a physician that
claims to be able to help you "cure" your brother, then you've met a
fake that holds no true knowledge whatsoever in the field of human
sexuality.  The reason is, because you CAN'T "cure" homosexuality or
bisexuality, because it's not a disorder or a malfunction at all. 
Your orientation is determined by your genetic coding, not the
environs that you live in, nor the religion in which you worship, or
the people around you.  You can't influence the orientation of someone
at all, other than forcing them to live a life flooded with denial and
lies ... not exactly one worth living at all.

Three.]  Homosexuality or bisexuality is not a physical, NOR a
psychological problem, mainly because it's not a problem at all.  I
know, this may not be the response that you are looking for, but it's
true.  You can't change who he is, so please don't try.  By forcing
him to live a lie, you may actually be unintentionally be encouraging
him to commit suicide, which isn't exactly what you want him to do, is
it?  Show him that you really care about him, and let him be who he
truly is.

Four.]  If he is looking to become "normal", then society has already
poisoned his mind far too much into dishonesty and misinformation. 
Look above for clarification.

Five.]  Okay, he was abused as a child, what does it have to do with
this?  Child abuse doesn't promote homosexuality, because it's a
physical experience, something external and something that doesn't
alter his genetic code.  He's a part of gay sexual acts?  Okay, but
that only means that he participates in homosexual activities, rather
than having homosexual preferences.  If this is the reason why your
brother thinks that he's gay, then he's misinformed.

Six.]  Don't bother posting more of the same question, because you'll
only get lies and false assumptions.  Like I said before, being
hetero, homo, or bi, is perfectly natural.  There's nothing wrong with
it at all!  And since it's a genetic fact, then you can't possibly
"cure" him, other than creating a clone of him with an altered genetic
profile.  Also, in my opinion, since you can't accept his
homosexuality enough to let him remain a homosexual, then you might as
well kill him because of your apparent hate towards gblts (gays;
bisexuals; lesbians; transsexuals) because there isn't that much of a
difference.  You're simply initiating a peaceful route, via
proselytizing him.  Quite frankly, it's ridiculous and pathetic.  I
mean, look around you!  There's enough hate generated by the majority
of the population to legalize oppression (like they have here where I
live), and even worse, commit genocide.

These are simply my thoughts, listen to them or not, is your choice,
but I'd prefer it if you did at least think about what you're doing. 
And in case you were wondering, yes I am gay (actually, bisexual, but
dominantly gay anyway).  If you had assumed that I WAS gay from the
start, simply because i was defending glbt rights, then you've already
proved your rampant homophobia and hate to yourself . . .


>Homosexuality is not a crime, not a disease, not a malfunction, not
perversion, not an abnormality, not an aliment, not a twisted thought,
not fiction, not a sin, and so on . . . Why percieve it to be as if it
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: sageprince-ga on 19 Feb 2003 12:39 PST
one aspect of your conundrum that no one's mentioned here are the
underlying motives behind your bother's (professed) desire to "cure"
himself, not to mention your own interest in this matter.  I think
this would be of interest to you if for no other reason than that this
might affect the modality of any resulting "treatment".  For example,
if your brother maintains devout religious ties, then an understanding
member of the clergy might be the first person to talk to.  If he's
mostly concerned with saving the marriage, then there are counselors
who specialize in that as well.
Byt more importantly, we are all products of our environment. And it's
likely that whatever social element that taught you homosexuality is
simply wrong, in all forms, no questions asked; still persists in your
surroundings today.  You might think of stepping outside your comfort
zone just a tad in search of other perspectives, possibly from people
who have gone through the same ordeal, to any end...
Another resource you might appeal to is the gay and lesbian section of
your local bookstore.  There are plenty of mainstream books published
for people dealing with circumstances similar to your own.

I'm surprised no one has suggested you seek therapy yourself.  This
has obviously drawn a good deal of emotional investment from you (to
the tune of $50).  I would think a good therapist might offer more
closure here than you could acheive by worrying, alone, long distance.

In any case, I would suggest you really try to be there for your
brother.  Let him know you care about him and support him no matter
where this road leads. This will probably make both of you feel much
stronger and more empowered to make the "right choice", whatever he
decides this may be.
Subject: Therapy huh?
From: sergeantshultz-ga on 01 Mar 2003 17:09 PST
So when people except other peoples perversions they are Fine
Upstanding Individuals, and if they don't why they are Homophobic?

I guess I will just have to be homophobic. 

I thought it was interesting that someone compared IQ to being
unnormal, I am sure most of us would be glad to be tilted that way.

So we don't have a choice as to what meaning we can put with the
thoughts in our heads? If that's the case we have prisons full of
innocent victims, they just did what they did because there was not a
choice. I am sure you are saying this homophobe has a problem,
maybe... but I don't have a choice. Speaking of choice, you BLTg's
probably feel butchering fetus's is okay also?

I wonder what God was thinking when He created man?

He must have thought, "WOW, choice huh? What a concept!"

All I know is the Bible says it is wrong. You have the CHOICE to
"learn or burn". The Bible also says God allows those that choose this
route to have a reprobate mind. I looked up reprobate: 1 : to condemn
strongly as unworthy, unacceptable, or evil <reprobating the laxity of
the age>
2 : to foreordain to damnation
3 : to refuse to accept : REJECT

We all get the choice between Right and Wrong.

Are you betting your soul on being right about "it just is"?
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: vonovich-ga on 24 Jul 2003 17:19 PDT
As I have a gay brother I feel I may have something to contribute to
this (rather interesting) discussion.

When my brother and I were still in high school, he confided to my
family that he was gay. Well, as a Southerner - born and raised - I
can tell you, I'd grown-up learning how to "marginalize" the gay
community... while referring to members of this community with rather
"dismissive" vocabulary. So, suffice it to say, I was rather besieged
and beside myself to learn that my brother was, "A FAGGOT"!!!.

I can tell you all, first hand, that upon learning this news (for
hours) I wept crocodile tears so heavy that I was unable to produce a
sound. For all intents and purposes, in those few moments, I
suffered... my brother's death, as the person I thought he was...
lived no more; while, instead, I found a stranger in his place (a gay
man) that I had never met... who would, I feared, at the very worst,
contract HIV (as I'd been lead to believe was a homosexal disease) or,
at the very least, never make me the uncle I'd always thought he

But then, after the tears had dried, something happened.... I realized
that I was in fact certain of something (even if I could not be
certain of who my brother really was)... that is, I knew that I could
be certain that "I loved my brother"; and, with that knowledge, I also
knew that "my love for him" was the "only" thing that "really"

So, instead of demanding that he "change back" to suite my
pre-conceptions of his identity... (that is, to make "me" feel
comfortable), I resolved to show my brother that I still loved him by
throwing myself into understanding human sexuality itself as a way to
confront my own demons while building a bridge that would allow me to
better understand who he "really" was... because I also knew two other
things... that sex is but a small part of who we are, and that my
brother was a good person and would not deliberately (nor maliciously)
go out of his way to destroy our happy home.

So, with that disposition (combined with my own way of doing things),
I hit the books... and began asking questions I'd never thought I'd
hear myself asking... So, after all that, I'm happy to say, I've
learned a great deal.... not only about sex, but (surprisingly enough)
about myself too.

Although I'll not pretend to understand your own particular questions
nor your own unique disposition either toward "sex" in general or your
relationship with your brother, I will share with you a few things I
learned along the way that helped me immeasureable.

To start off...
I'd recommend that you read a book published by
Carl & Emma Jung: ANIMUS & ANIMA:

Here's a brief discription:

But, not so as to lecture anyone...
I'll just say this: After all my own self-study, I now believe three

First, from my own research, I've found that "sex", figuratively
speaking, is a jungle... with no frontiers... save for those that
society emposes. Historically speaking, sexual expression has never
reached a "norm", but has evolved over the centuries... to become
increasingly conservative as society (generally speaking) has become
more complex. But,
ultimately, I find that the physical act of sex has nothing to do with
anything whatsoever but communication and the way we choose to express
ourselves within an intimate relationship.

Second, from my own personal experience, I've learned that to get at
the root of any "problem" we must first embrace an ancient axiom,
which simply states: Know Thyself.

Finally, I've learned that the only person we can change is ourself...
and, with that, the way we choose to attend to challenges that
inevitably come our way.

Toward that end, I invite you to enjoy your life, and to allow your
brother to enjoy his.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: norbel-ga on 13 Aug 2003 07:08 PDT
You are correct in assuming that your brother's homosexual behavior is
not normal.  You are to be commended for understanding that and for
seeking help for him.  He can be helped.  You limit your possible
causes to physical or psychological.  May I suggest
another--spiritual.  While physical damage is likely, and
psychological issues may exist, Man was created with a spiritual
dimension that must also be considered.  While many will scoff, make
accusations of homophobia, and berate "religious dogma", it seems to
me an act that has brought healing for centuries may be
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: mr_menace-ga on 03 Sep 2003 13:49 PDT
Many of the comments in this forum endeavour to compare
'homosexuality' against the 'norm', I think you should first consider
the very concept and definition of 'norm,' if it is the norm referred
to by upper-class, largely white, 70+ yrs who reflect 90% of the high
courts in any country or state, the concept of the 'norm' which
attempts to ascertain their upper-class ideologies of a moral utopia
by instrument of public policy appears to me to be heavily founded
upon prejudice rather than principle and severely deficient of
pragmatism. These same ideals filter through into what society as a
whole deems acceptable and likewise what becomes stigmatised.
Ultimately, we are all the norm. Each one of us is inherantly the
norm, because there is no norm merely an arbitrary notion of the
'norm' which often forms an influenza throughout society. I personally
don't belive that the nuclear family is or should be societies ideal,
I would suggest that homosexuality is a manifestation of a basic human
instinct just as heterosexual relationships. I think the arguments
here of whether homosexuality is choice, nature or nurture is
irrelevant. The only true question to be considered should be, is your
brother happy? Cleary this is a difficult issue as there are other
parties involved, in particular children, I am making the assumption
that your brother had some notion that he was gay before he entered
into a serious heterosexual relationship (which he probably did with
good intentions), but perhaps should have given these notions
sufficient address before committing himself. However, whats done is
done and people make mistakes ( just look at the divorce rates), what
you should focus on is not trying to confine your brother into the
'boxes' of societies norms and encourage him to be a good father to
his child. Also, try to undertand more rather than trying to fix
without first understanding.

P.S. In relation to the comments on homosexuality being condemned in
the bible, I would like to draw to your attention that
african-american people were interpreted  as being 'evil' until late
in the previous millenia.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: gatch-ga on 21 Nov 2003 04:50 PST
I am astonnished by the high quality and sensitivity of the answers to
a very delicate question. As a life long practicing homosexual who has
never deviated from being soleley attracted to men I would like to say
to you that you can understand and accept your brother as a
homosaexual just as he can understand and accept you as a
heterosexual. There is social pressure within our predominantly
heterosexual society for men to marry in order to fit the expected
norm of behaviour. This pressure can cause a man to abandon his true
feelings and perform as a heterosexual while off stage his true
feelings are kept closely guarded. To varying degrees this becomes an
imprisonment of the soul which can lead to deep depression and even
suicide. Be thankful and grateful that your brother has the strength
of charcter and trust in you to do the right thing for both of you.
Freedom is the most valuable thing we have in our world and the
soverignty of the soul of man rests on freedom nurtured by love. Love
him for who he is and trust him to be who he says he is. Don't force
him to bocome someone else just to satisfy your need for him to be
like who you think he should. Let him be.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: kb5zcr-ga on 16 Dec 2003 01:42 PST
The person who posted the question clearly stated 

"Please answer by showing solutions and not by telling me that there is
nothing wrong of him being a homosexual"

And what does he get? Exactlly what he didn't want.

On another note: 
The definition of phobia is
"an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a
particular object, class of objects, or situation"

Did you read that? It said fear.  I believe that the homosexual
lifestyle is wrong. I don't fear homosexuals, but I'm called a
homophobia by the homosexual community. Like I said, I don't fear
homosexuals, I just don't like being around them. Does that make me a
bad guy? I don't think so.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: jimwww-ga on 16 Feb 2004 11:37 PST
Instead of trying to address all the comments to date, I'm just going
to fill in a few blanks. But first, let me pull rank. (Warning:
Narcissism ahead -- grin -- but it's all true.)

I have a Ph.D. in evolutionary biology and have studied human
sexuality, including homosexuality, for decades. If you were to read
my listing in Who's Who in America, you'd learn that I am one of the
dozen or so top-recognized experts in this field (homosexuality and
biology). Instead of actually getting into the arguments, for the most
part I'm going to list my conclusions, and hope that they seem
sensible enough to you to influence your opinions. Alas, most of the
evidence in favor of my conclusions is in the printed library
literature and not available online.

I will try to address your question from a somewhat more conservative
point of view than that of a knee-jerk gay liberationist (mind you, I
think gay liberationists are just fine when they are not knee-jerk,
and there's a lot of both kinds in the world). But this point of view
is still a bit more liberal than (let's say) Jerry Falwell would like.

Quite a bit more liberal, in fact.

MUCH more liberal, actually...

You said that you don't want to receive information that is merely
"telling me that there is nothing wrong of him being a homosexual."
But if that is the truth, what do you want instead? Lies? One thing an
expert can do is to tell you when you are asking the wrong question.
It hurts to hear that one's own basic assumption is incorrect, but if
that is the truth, then you need to hear that.

I can't tell from your posting how far you would be willing to "push"
your opinions in your brother's direction. If you tell him that you
feel his orientation is wrong or abnormal, would you drop it there if
he disagrees? Or would you push harder and try harder to change his
mind? If the former, then I have no quarrel. But if the latter, then
keep in mind what I heard Dr. Laura Schlessinger say (on air) in
response to a father phoning her for help with his daughter's
revelation that she (the daughter) was lesbian. Dr. Laura is
conservative, but she is not a knee-jerk conservative. So instead of
answering in a way that the caller probably wanted ("Oh, you poor
fellow, isn't it terrible how gay libbers have taken over blah blah
blah"), practically the first words out of her mouth, almost to the
point of interrupting the caller, were something like "You understand
that if you fight this that you'll destroy your family?" (sorry I
don't have an exact transcript, but that doesn't matter for the point
I'm making). That was NOT what he wanted to hear; he wanted sympathy.
Dr. Laura correctly and quickly guessed this, and jumped immediately
to the bottom line of her opinion, which was that he needed to face
the issue of family cohesion and what HE can do to support it or
destroy it. (Since he can't control his daughter.)

I'm surprised that none of the responders mentioned Joseph Nicolosi, a
psychotherapist who claims that he can use something he terms
"Reparative Therapy" to help gay men become straight. In one sense
this is just as well, because in my professional opinion Reparative
Therapy does not work -- ever -- and often causes more problems for
the client. Just in case you read something which brings you under
Nicolosi's influence, before you sink much deeper be sure to read this
(online, thank goodness) review of his book:
On the question of normal and abnormal, genetic and environmental,
right and wrong, animals doing gay things or not doing gay things,
etc., etc., I have written extensively. Off the record I'm willing to
admit here that I find almost all printed materials on these issues to
be amusing and wrong, or terrifyingly wrong.

Being blonde in the United States is not the statistical norm. Quite
possibly the majority of women who appear to be blonde in the U.S. are
bottle blondes -- women who have rejected the beautiful hair that
Mother Nature gave them genetically. So just because something is
genetic does not mean it cannot be changed. And if something is
environmental, that doesn't necessarily mean that it CAN be changed.
You can never forget your native language, but the details of that
language are not encoded in your genes.

Another version of this fallacy is to look for evidence of
homosexuality in the animal kingdom. The very best, most extensive
review of this is a huge book by Bruce Bagemihl:

(A Google search on his name will give many, many results. A search on
misspellings of his name will, too... Thank goodness for Google's
spelling correction!!)

In my professional opinion, Bagemihl is correct in most if not all of
his scientific conclusions. Homosexual behavior definitely is
widespread (albeit not universal) in the animal kingdom.
Homosexual-orientation animals DO exist. Conservative reviewers of his
book claiming to find this or that problem with his views have not
read his book completely (evident from their reviews) or didn't
completely understand them.

But understand this: If animals do something we like, we call it
"natural." If animals do something that we don't like, we call it
"animalistic." [Likewise, if children do something we like we call it
"childlike", and if they do something we don't like we call it
"childish".] Whether or not animals do something does not REALLY
influence our opinion of that something!

I cannot emphasize this point enough!!!!!!!!! Whether or not something
is genetic or environmental (yes, professional colleagues, I know I'm
being waaaaaay too loose here in my terminology) does not REALLY
influence our opinion of that something. In fact, 99% of people start
with their conclusion (like it or hate it?), find a fact or two from
the real world (natural or un? ... common or rare?), and then argue
along whichever (seemingly) logical path connects the latter to the
former. It *is* possible to argue from facts to conclusions, and 1% of
humans really do try to do so, but they are always flooded out by the

When your husband married, I assumed he explicitly promised his wife
certain things: love for life, sickness and health, etc., etc. He also
IMPLICITLY promised her that he had looked at his internal sexual
feelings and concluded that they were directed at women, not men, at
her, not her sister, at adults, not children, and at humans, not
animals (etc., etc.). Back in the olden days, when gay men were more
or less forced to marry to have anything other than a miserable life,
I could justify a man not telling his wife about his gay feelings
before the marriage. Nowadays I find it very difficult to make that
argument; gay liberation is just too available and predominantly
factually correct, and in-depth explorations of sexual orientation are
just too common. So I think he owes your wife an apology for either
(a) lying to her or (b) not taking the responsibility or the time to
examine his feelings before committing to a heterosexual marriage. (If
he and his wife DID extensively discuss his gay feelings before they
got married, then no such apology is needed, in my opinion.)

I know many gay men of the older generation who are husbands and
fathers who have found a way to stay married and to lead a responsible
gay life. It is not easy, since our society claims that marriage is
predicated on erotic/romantic sexual attachment between two
individuals for life. It is also easy to lead one or the other part of
such a life in a way that hurts people deeply.

So my final suggestion to you is that you help your brother -- and
yourself -- understand that there is nothing wrong with his gay
feelings. NOTHING! What is right or wrong is what he decides to DO on
the basis of coming to terms with those feelings.

[I do not believe that homosexuality is abnormal or an illness, unlike
pedophilia. But I'll make a comparison with pedophilia nevertheless.
If Michael Jackson has pedophilic fantasies in his head, there is
nothing wrong or immoral about the fact that his brain comes up with
such fantasies. He is immoral or has done something wrong ONLY if he
has committed pedophilic ACTS.]

In my professional opinion, your brother and his wife need to see a
gay-affirmative ("there's nothing wrong with being gay") therapist who
will work with the couple in a way which is not offensive to your
brother's morality ("given that he has these feelings and that they
will not change, what, practically, will the two of you do to take
care of your kids and your love for each other?"). I would telephone
the closest gay community center (yes!) and get their list of
recommended therapists, then match this list against a general
family-therapist list obtained from the local psychological society
(maybe from your health plan); choose someone who is on BOTH lists. If
none such exist, then find someone in the therapeutic community (start
with a family friend, or anyone on either of the lists) and ask them
for referrals. Then ask the referrals for referrals, etc., until you
find one or two therapists who can work with both points of view.

I hope this helps, and provides a perspective at least a little
different from those posted here by others (most of which are quite
good, in my opinion).
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: jgcedcvk-ga on 22 Mar 2004 05:11 PST
I find it strange that these answers and comments contain a huge hole.
Un-noticed, undiscussed.
The other side of the coin.
Why is it that so many persons feel that there is something wrong with
homosexuality ?
Feel disgust, not only at visualising its physical acts, but even at
seing the special body language and hearing the special intonation of
its more extreme manifestation ?

The question is - why and how does this arise ? Is it inborne or
culturally induced ? Is it voluntary ? Can it be cured ?

I am not being facetious. I think these are serious questions, which
strike at the heart of the problem, and exactly mirror the matters
discussed above.

Without THESE feelings, those others would hardly be noticed or discussed.

I personally believe it is fairly obvious that evolution might have
built these feelings of repulsion into the majority, simply due to the
on-balance anti-reproductive and therefore anti-survival aspects of
homosexual practice. Its not rocket science.

So we come to the final question - if these feelings are NOT a choice
- if they are genetic and built in - do not the individuals in whom
these feelings are strong have the same right to respect and
consideration that are claimed for the homosexuals themselves ?

In a free and just society, just as the minority of homosexuals have
the right to laws allowing them to conduct their private lives as they
wish without persecution, do not the other group, at least as large
numerically, have the right to laws protecting them from the sight in
public of behaviour which causes them instinctive feelings of disgust
and repulsion ?

Is this not symmetrical ? Do we not need each side to respect the
unrequested and inevitable feelings of the other ?

Instead of the current situation. Where the previous "homosexuals are
in the wrong and need to be repressed and reeducated to correct their
wrong choices" has been replaced by "those feeling disgust are in the
wrong and need to be repressed and reeducated to correct their wrong

So you see why I say -half the discussion is missing. Browbeaten into
guilty silence.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: hsapien138-ga on 29 Mar 2004 02:16 PST
Well rounded answers.

Your brother is a normal person and attempting conversion to a
"societal modified normality" is simply aligning  with a standard.

Genetically, species h. sapien (and others I am sure) go through a
process of sensitization secondary to two important hormaones:
-Mullerian (female) Inhibiting Substance (MIS),and 
-secretion of androgens 

-Androgens produce growth effects on the male and are also present in
ALL fetuses early in development.

-MIS must be secreted to inhibit female duct growth and androgens must
be secreted to enhance male duct growth. A female fetus with no
developing testes will produce neither MIS nor androgens, thus, female
ducts will develop and male ducts will disappear.

Variations in timing, amount, deficiencies in enzyme precursors, etc.
all affect formation of normal genetelia, which affects thesecretion
of hormones which affects mannerisms etc........


Bottom line:

The tendency to be attracted to males or females POSSIBLY can be an
outcome of deviations from statistical standards that define a male
(XY) and female (XX) that develop normlly.

So many variations-visual attraction etc.

What about "life style choices"-Read Abraham Vegheese's book entitled
"My Country". He has captured the essences of the homosexual lifestyle
and why people choose this path.

Anyway, my sister is homosexual. She chooses this based on a horrid
experience while at university. She is quite happy, her mate is
lovely, they have a child and are excellent parents. Both are fine
people and citizens.

I hope this helps.


pardon the spelling errors
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: ryanjames-ga on 15 Apr 2004 09:50 PDT
While it's clear to see that redosam's intentions are good, sadly good
intent cannot justify flawed morals. He clearly believes homosexuality
to be wrong, and as it appears his brother also shares the view to an
extent, I would assume that this opinion has been due to their
upbringing. After reading a lot of the comments posted here, I have
seen both responses by people who are digusted by this question and
people who agree with redosam. I can't preach to any of these people:
they have their own opinions and they are entitled to that. But, I
would like to share my own opinion on this matter.

A lot of the prejudice against homosexuality seems to be based on the
belief that it is "unnatural". But I do not really see how this can be
so - if something occurs, without human intervention, then how can it
be unnatural? Homosexuals are born in the same way as heterosexuals.
They grow up the same way. It's not like they were dragged to a lab as
babies and altered to be homosexual. So how is it not natural? It
happens. On average, about 10% of the worlds population are
homosexual. That's a pretty big percentage for something thats not
natural. Consider this: 10% of people are left handed. Do you go
around calling left handed people unnatural, or freaks? Do you
consider their left handedness to be an illness? Obviously not. So you
may argue, homosexuality CAN be unnatural, because it is a result of
upbringing, not predefined at birth. Again, I refer to my previous
argument: left handedness could equally be a result of environment and
upbringing, and not predefined. Again, you don't call left handed
people unnatural, do you? Yes, being left handed and homosexual are
quite different things, granted, but the concept, the factors and the
situation are almost EXACTLY the same.

Much prejudice against homosexuality also seems to be based on
religion reasons. I know I'm starting to explore a different issue
here, but it relates to this discussion. There are a LOT of religions
in the world, and the followers of each religion all believe their own
religion to be the correct one. It's clear they can't all be right,
yet if you suggested to any one of them that they could be mistaken,
they would fiercely defend their own beliefs. We're incredibly
arrogant in that respect. Well, in the past, we used to burn people
who we thought were witches. Back then, religion didn't have any
problem with that, did it? Back then, it was perfectly acceptable.
Accuse someone of witchcraft today, and you'd most likely either be
laughed at, or you'd get a shrug and they would say, it's just another
modern spiritual practice. My point? Things change. Beliefs change.
Society changes. You can't close your mind. You have to question your
own beliefs. You shouldn't believe anything because you are TOLD that
you should. You should believe something because you have explored it
in your own mind.

Anyway, back on the main issue: To redosam and his brother - you say
he is married, with kids? Let me ask, he must have been quite happy
with his partner to marry her; and have kids with her. So why would he
make this change to homosexuality if it were not who he really is, if
it wasn't his real identity? Why would he risk his marriage over
nothing? He wouldn't. He is just accepting who he really is. All you
are doing in the end is increasing your brother's pain and denial.
Your intentions, as I stated at the beginning, are good, but you're
just hurting him deeper. You're blinded by your own beliefs. Consider
the situation.

- Ryan
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: antarctidus-ga on 28 Jan 2005 23:57 PST
In my opinion, there are two basic points about homophobia:

1 - Religious.

2 - Social / Enviromental.

On the religious side, anyone who is a devoted christian cannot accept
homosexuality as normal. Because according to bible homosexuality is a

"Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie
with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall
surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them".

(Just to outline how sticky this whole bible-argument-thing really is.
According to bible again, homosexuals deserved to die by stoning, as
did blasphemists, murders, rapists and even disobedient children (!).
If a christian believes in old testament, of wich the 10 commandments
descent, then it would be perfectly normal to kill your nearby
homosexual neighbour - even a nearby astrologer!! f.inst:

"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put
to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for
their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB))

Since christians consider bible to be authentic message from above,
they cannot simply get picky about it's content. Common sense has it
so that the bible is either all right or (even in a few passages)
wrong, ergo, it's a pity fraud / forgery. Omnipotent entity can't be
wrong. If a christian consider bible to be wrong on it's stance on
homosexuality, then he might just as well reject the rest. A wrong
"holy script" doesn't hold water all that well, hence, it's not at all
worth worshipping. Read, however, that omnipotent God is by no means
associated with christianity and judaism according to other,
non-biblical religions.

Now, because nowadays there are a lot of devoted, conservative
christians/muslims in higher circles of society, homophobic attitude
will continue prevail among the majority opinion. If, however, we
don't believe in biblical scripts as anything else but a human
invented society control media, as in my (well-researched) opinion it
obviously is, then we can easily wipe out the religious issue

But little to nothing can be done about those millions double-standard
bible-believers - families, relatives, officials - who still chose to
believe and live by (again, in quite a PICKY way, I may add) these
ancient, much outdated scripts. Hence, judging from the art of this
question, chances are high that you'll still face major difficulties
as a homosexual among certain circles of society. A homosexual coming
out in a religious family who are anti-gay, never will be fully
accepted. In this case the social risks of exposure must be put
against the benefits of self-denial, in wich a person would be much
better off being  secret about his sexual orientation in order to fit
among the family, work, and friends. Importance of social status often
surpasses the need of sexual freedom.

History records that at any time, at any social ring, the vast
majority of population had one or more compulsive phobic attitudes, as
well as utterly scientificly wrong assumptions. Few individuals daring
resist these false assumptions, were labeled lunatics and, as now
still in some countries, were put to death. Others were expelled and
denied basic civil rights. Therefore, many preferred silence to
neglection - even when they were right. A curious paralell to catholic
officials in Africa still claiming condoms in fact provoke AIDS, and
have no protective value (!!). Or Iranian court officials believing a
girl having a relationship outside marriage deserves to die.

May he who has common sense, make a more openminded and reasonable
judgement of your brother's situation. But by all means don't let
certain religious zealots (and their ambiguous litterature) influence
your decisions all too much.
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: poblemsolver-ga on 26 Feb 2005 21:58 PST
I think that the true problem with homosexuality is how we frame it.
We, society, call a person who commits homosexual acts as a homosexual or gay
We say for example: "James is Gay"
We generalise and process this by categorising the person.
Categorising and generalising makes life very manageable and easy as
we organise things and think in categories. But is this a right way of
thinking???? this type of thinking opens the door for overlooking
things and is basically the basis of racism and many other mistakes we
humans make.
anyway, back to the topic, people who say "James is gay" are
categorizing james according to an action or a preference which is a
variable, (action and preferences are not constant, they change over
time) rather than according to some constant.
However there is something wrong with categorising people like that.
We can't categorise something according to something that changes.
That is just inconsistent with the idea of categorizing which,
basically, requires constants. otherwise it's chaos-order which is
practically just a nicer name for chaos.
As a correction it should be: "James does Gay" or "James prefers Gay"
or both statements combined "James perefers and does Gay" NOT "james
is Gay"

If your brother processes that he is gay instead of he does/prefer
gay, then he is paralyzed and helpless; He will think its out of his
control. Other than that, he can do something about it if he wants to.

There was a lot of pseudo-high-class rubish and junk in the posts,
about homosexuality being genetic! show us your proofs? Homosexuality
is not genetic because if it was it would have vanished as so called
homosexuals most usually don't reproduce as they DO sex only whith
their own sex. And what we call homosexuals don't actually come from
homosexual parents.
Genes do not influence our preferences nor our actions. genes are only
about how our cells, practically, work and develop, to maintain our
growth and identities as human beings. Don't let science and fast
advances confuse you or fool you!

I personally don't think that helping your brother will lead you to
make him live an illusion. You'll do just the opposite you'll take him
out of living a potential illusional life full of
self-defeating/self-fulfilling acts and reasoning. I think the people
telling you to not mind helping him and just let him be, are the ones
living a lie and an illusion. Again the word that must be used is not
let him be, but let him do or prefer. And well, there are limits on
freedom in terms of let him do. I think we all agree on that! let's
think of criminals if anyone disagrees...Anyway, Homosexuality is one
of the proven sources of depression and psychological turmoil. Some so
called homosexuals come up with the most creative exuses and
self-fulfilling reasons to show that homosexuality is normal, there is
nothing wrong with it, bla bla bla....that makes them feel right,
undepressed, unstressed.  Are they right? I don't think so! Let me
clarify, there is a difference between what's self-fulfilling or
self-defeating and what's right!  I think that even them they don't
think so, deep down. They just speak out of pacified doubt and junk
liberating exuses.

I agree with those who said you can't control your brother's actions
and preferences. only him, he can.
What you can do is support him to change and give him sympathy and
clarify things for him. I think it's good to talk to him and make him
open up the node that was created from his abused childhood. Make him
get in touch with his values and compare them to great values. Make
sure he understands the difference. Probably, seek an expert or a good
religious man. I don't know what's your religion. But make him
understand, as the most famous religions teach, that humans are here
for a test. God does not give us bad things, Instead he gives us
difficulties and trials, to test us. Your brother should feel blessed,
because his test may be an easy one, as other people have incomparable
tests and they succeed in facing and enduring them.

If I were to give you or any so called homosexual a personal advice,
It would be that the key to true success in life and reality, even in
afterlife if they believe in it, is to "Choose right over choosing
pleasurable or avoiding painful"

Good luck!
Subject: Re: Is male homosexuality a physical problem or psychological problem? #4
From: dirtybuffalo-ga on 09 Mar 2005 03:39 PST
It's all about being happy!  If your brother is happy with himself -
leave him alone.  If he isn't - find out how to help him be happy NOT
how to change his sexual preferences.  Acceptance!

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