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Subject:
SCIENCE
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: blackbob-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
09 Jan 2003 15:12 PST
Expires: 08 Feb 2003 15:12 PST Question ID: 140109 |
WE HAVE A LONG RUN FROM OUR WATER HEATER TO A SHOWER ABOUT 35 FEET. THE SHOWER IS FEED BY A 3/4" COPPER LINE. I'M THINKING OF CHANGING THE WATER LINE TO 3/8 O.D. LINE. MY THINKING IS THAT I WOULD GET HOT WATER A LOT QUICKER BECAUSE WHEN YOU FIRST TURN ON THE SHOWER IT WOULD NOT HAVE TO DISPLACE AS MUCH COLD WATER IN A 3/8" LINE VERSUS THE 3/4" LINE. WITH A SMALL HOLE IN THE SHOWER HEAD THIS RESTRICTS THE FLOW OF WATER WHICH TAKES PLENTY OF TIME WITH A 3/4" LINE. ONLY TWO PEOPLE LIVE IN THE HOUSE SO WE USUALLY HAVE TO BLEED OFF ALL THE COLD WATER EVERY TIME. HOW MUCH FASTER WILL I GET HOT WATER? THANKS, R. MEADE |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: SCIENCE
From: mathtalk-ga on 09 Jan 2003 16:17 PST |
Hi, blackbob-ga: The smaller line will have less volume, and hence less cold water to displace, but it will also have a smaller cross-section and hence restrict the rate of flow more than the larger line does. Note that reducing the diameter by half cuts the cross-section area by 1/4th. I think the slower flow pretty much offsets the reduced volume, so you'd wind up waiting just as long. Also, in my experience the restricted flow from a 3/8ths inch line makes for a pretty unsatisfying shower. That, however, is a matter of personal taste. regards, mathtalk-ga |
Subject:
Re: SCIENCE
From: carnegie-ga on 09 Jan 2003 17:26 PST |
Dear Blackbob and Mathtalk, Just to clarify: reducing the diameter of your pipe by a half reduces its cross-sectional area _by_ three-quarters - in other words, _to_ one quarter - of what it was, not by a quarter. (Since both figures are outside diameters, the reduction will be slightly more extreme than this, of course.) I trust this helps. Carnegie |
Subject:
Re: SCIENCE
From: racecar-ga on 09 Jan 2003 17:34 PST |
If the resistance offered by the pipe is negligible compared to the resistance of the shower head, you'd only have to wait 1/4 as long. If the resistance of the shower head is negligible compared to that of the pipe, on the other hand, you'd actually have to wait 4 times LONGER, because flow in a pipe goes like the fourth power of the radius. With a 3/8" line, however, both effects are certainly significant. From a practical point of view, 3/8" pipe is almost never used for water plumbing, and there's probably a reason. 1/2" is used all the time, and shouldn't decrease the flow rate much, especially if there aren't too many elbows. Using 1/2" would still decrease the amount of water to bleed off by more than a factor of 2. |
Subject:
Re: SCIENCE
From: racecar-ga on 09 Jan 2003 17:37 PST |
by which I mean to less than half of it's former value |
Subject:
Re: SCIENCE
From: mathtalk-ga on 09 Jan 2003 20:23 PST |
Hi, blackbob-ga: A couple of alternative approaches: [Hot Water Recirculation] http://www.grundfos.com/Web/HomeUs.nsf/Webopslag/D6600B14F5C7C73386256AE9005326AE The idea is to pump hot water that is sitting still in the pipe back to the hot water heater periodically. While this wastes energy (in the form of heat that dissipates in the pipes more than otherwise), it saves that cold water that would otherwise run down the shower drain waiting for the hot water to arrive. [Tankless Hot Water Heaters] http://www.chilipepperapp.com/hwcs.htm Actually this last site discusses the gamut of hot water recirculation options in an attempt to convince you to go with a tankless hot water heater. These are small electric heaters that can be located close to the point of use, and deliver a reasonable throughput of hot water "on the fly". This approach probably saves the most in waste water + energy in the long run. regards, mathtalk-ga |
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