Subject: what is the code to LEAVE FRAMES (not target="_top"
variations) to WHATEVER page is open in second frame?

This HTML question will be super easy to answer for someone who knows
the answer.  I'm just having a hard time tracking it down.

I use FrontPage 2000, so my HTML programming ability is limited.

QUESTION CONTEXT:

I have a two-frames set-up where the top frame contains navigation
information, and the bottom frame is a given page within a target
site.  I need to have a 'leave frames' hyperlink in the top frame that
will take the person to the second page by itself, whatever that page
is at the time.  The target="_parent" or target="_top" commands are
not what I'm looking for, because they require that a URL be specified
in the link.

Two examples of where I want to use this feature are:
http://www.sterlingdallan.com/jjdewey/offsite/books/immortal.htm
and
http://www.sterlingdallan.com/jjdewey/offsite/themes/beast.htm

The purpose of the top frame is to give the users a route back to the
main site.  But within the bottom frame will be a wide array of pages.
 I want the user to be able to click on the "leave frames" button
(defined by a single code), and have the current page in the bottom
frame open alone into their browser.

That generic code is what I want.

I'm sure there is a simple solution to this.  I just haven't been able
to find it.

I'm guessing that the solution is going to look something like this
(the following code is an actual working sample used for another
application).

<a onclick="href='http://web.archive.org/web/*/'+location.href"
href="http://www.greaterthings.com">Page
History</a>

Clicking on this link opens an archive.org version of whatever page is
open at the time on my site.

Very simple code for a fairly complex operation.  There has to be
something like this for the "leave frames" function I'm seeking.  I
just can't find it.  Your help would be appreciated.

Thanks

---

Clarification of Question by askreceive-ga on 09 May 2002 12:16 PDT

The sample pages where I wish to use this feature may be accessed at

http://www.jjwritings.com/offsite/books/immortal.htm 
and 
http://www.jjwritings.com/offsite/themes/beast.htm

There is a way to do it, but with the security-conscious nature of
many modern browsers, it will only work if the site in the bottom
frame is within the same domain as the top frame and the frameset. 
This is because the standard security settings of modern browsers
don't allow frames to access variables relating to other "remote"
frames or windows (this is to prevent sites from "tracking" you).

Supposing both the top and bottom frames are within your domain, you
may use the following tag:

<a href="#" onClick='parent.location.href=parent.main.location.href;return
false;'>close top frame</a>

This assumes you've named the bottom frame "main", which I believe
you've done.

Unfortunately, if the bottom frame is in a different domain and the
user hasn't lowered his browser's security settings, the only solution
you have is to use a hardcoded URL in the link with a "_top" target. 
This unfortunately won't take them back to where they've last surfed,
only the first page you linked them to.

Notice that About.com does this
[http://classiclit.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uic.edu%2Fjaddams%2Fhull%2Fja_bio.html].

They link to off-site pages with a top frame, and offer an option to
"turn off this top frame", but if you've clicked through several links
in the bottom frame, it loses your position in the site, taking you
back to the first page to which it linked.

I'm sorry that this doesn't offer you an ideal solution, but I hope
I've adequately explained your options to you.

Let me know if you need anything else.

--Joey

---

Request for Answer Clarification by askreceive-ga on 09 May 2002 14:39 PDT

In this particular case, every instance will be to an off-site
location (that is why the frame was created in the first place, to
provide some continuity for the author, whose writings are found
scattered on several websites).

It sure seems like a very simple code should be in place that would
shut off the top frame and leave only the bottom content, without
reverting to the first page selected.  I'm sure I'm not the only one
who would like to see such a feature.  Surely someone out there has
figured out a clever (and ethical) work-around.

Based on your reply, I can see that to find such a solution, my $5.00
bid is probably inadequate compensation.

I will admit you have provided a portion of the answer for my initial
question in telling me that this is not "possible" because of security
issues.

I guess common sense tells me that it has to be possible, and that
there must be an easy solution.

Perhaps future developers of the world of HTML will incorporate such
an easy solution that will not breach security.

I know what I'm going to do for now.  When they click on the "leave
frames" button, I will take them to a new browser with instructions on
how to right click on the page in question, cut and copy the URL, and
paste that into the browser.

---

Request for Answer Clarification by askreceive-ga on 09 May 2002 14:56 PDT

In this particular case, every instance will be to an off-site
location (that is why the frame was created in the first place, to
provide some continuity for the author, whose writings are found
scattered on several websites).

It sure seems like a very simple code should be in place that would
shut off the top frame and leave only the bottom content, without
reverting to the first page selected.  I'm sure I'm not the only one
who would like to see such a feature.  Surely someone out there has
figured out a clever (and ethical) work-around.

Based on your reply, I can see that to find such a solution, my $5.00
bid is probably inadequate compensation.

I will admit you have provided a portion of the answer for my initial
question in telling me that this is not "possible" because of security
issues.

I guess common sense tells me that it has to be possible, and that
there must be an easy solution.

Perhaps future developers of the world of HTML will incorporate such
an easy solution that will not breach security.

I know what I'm going to do for now.  When they click on the "leave
frames" button, I will take them to a new browser with instructions on
how to right click on the page in question, cut and copy the URL, and
paste that into the browser.

---

Clarification of Answer by joey-ga on 09 May 2002 15:01 PDT

It's unfortunate that it has to work out that way.  I asked around
here at work (with some of the DHTML developers), and they concurred
that they've never been able to find a solution that is able to bypass
the security locks to allow the browser to figure out what's in an
offsite frame or window.

This may be something to request of Microsoft for future versions.  It
would be nice if they'd allow access to some of the variables without
actually "parsing" them to figure out what's in it.  Like, in this
case, it would be nice to be able to set a window's location to that
of another's as long as the code doesn't try to do anything else with
that location information.

Good luck with your site.

Didn't resolve my problem, but did tell me that the problem is
probably currently unresolvable, which is more than what I knew.  Darn
it.

My Researcher account hasn't been actived yet, so I'll have to post
this as a comment.

I would just use Javascript, and make the link like this:

<a href="javascript:parent.location.href=parent.mainframe.location.href">close
top frame</a>

where "mainframe" is the name of the frame with the content.

I tried this and it didn't work.

I used the following code:

<a href="javascript:parent.location.href=parent.main.location.href">close top
      frame</a>

The target frame (different domain location) is labeled "main."

http://www.jjwritings.com/leave_frames.htm

Instructions on How to Close Down Frames and Not Loose Your Place

Here is how to close out frames without loosing your place.  

 - Right click on the page you wish to view outside of frames.  

 - Click on "properties."  One of the pieces of information shown will
be the "Address(URL)."

 - Select this by blocking it out (left click at the beginning, hold
down mouse while you move to the end of the address, then release the
left-click button).

 - Press CTRL-C [copy] (push down the "Ctrl" button on your keyboard,
and hold it down while pressing the "c" key.)  This copies that text
into the clipboard of your computer (you don't see anything
happening).

 - Place your cursor in the browser address box of your browser. 
Delete the current address.

 - Press Ctrl-V to paste the contents of the clipboard into the
browser address box.

 - Hit "Enter" on your keyboard.  This will take you to the page
currently open in the frames, breaking you out of the frames you are
currently in.

We webmasters wish we could just make a link for you in which all you
have to do is click on it and the top frame disappears, making the
contents in the bottom frame the only contents in the browser. 
Unfortunately, without lowering security settings, current browsers do
not allow such a procedure when the target frame is on a different
domain because it would enable tracking of sites visited.  There are
ways to create a link that will break you out of frames, but a URL
must be specified, and you are almost sure to loose your place.

Instructions composed by Sterling D. Allan on behalf of
JJWritings.com, May 9, 2002.

I submitted this dialogue to Microsoft's "wish list" for integration
into future browser software.

It can be done as long as the page in question does not have a script that
forces it into frames such as the msdn site -  if you can load a page into
the lower frame then they can get the url of it (whether it is from your
site or external) - from there it is a short step to say:

top.location = top.bottomframename.location

Since the pages are not in the same domain, you can do this:

Have the navigation in the top frame link like this:
<a href="http://yoursite.com/page.html?otherurl">site</a>
where "otherurl" is http://...whatever, the link you really want.

Then, in the navigation frame code, add to the body tag 
<body onLoad="show()">.

Then, in between <head> and </head>, insert

<script language="Javascript">
function show() {
 if (location.href.indexOf("?")>-1) {
  var u = location.href;
  u=u.substring(u.indexOf("?"),u.length);
  document.otherframe.location = u
 }
}
</script>

Lastly, make the link to close the top frame like this:

<a href="javascript:parent.location.href=location.href.substring(location.href.indexOf('?'),location.href.length)">close
top frame</a>

Perhaps I didn't do them right, but none of these suggestions worked.

(1) I placed the following code in the head section of the frames
definition page; and in the top frame page (the first then the second)

<script language="Javascript"> 
function show() { 
 if (location.href.indexOf("?")>-1) { 
  var u = location.href; 
  u=u.substring(u.indexOf("?"),u.length); 
  document.otherframe.location = u 
 } 
} 
</script> 

with the following code for the "close top frames" link:

<a href="javascript:parent.location.href=location.href.substring(location.href.indexOf('?'),location.href.length)">close
top frame</a>


(2) I tried
<a href="javascript:top.location=top.main.location">close top
frame</a>

(3) I tried
<a href="javascript:top.location.href=top.main.location.href">close
top frame</a>


What would help, along with these suggestions is if you could give me
a URL that I could go to see them in working operation.  Please, no
more suggestions until you can do that.  You're wasting my time.

you might try asking this question in a web development forum that
specializes in javascript issues, such as http://webxpertz.net/forums/
or http://sitepointforums.com/ - you need to register to ask a Q (it's
free), but I bet you'll get a good answer :-)

Dear askreceive,

It seems that you want to allow surfers to navigate freely on off
domain sites but I would imagine that you would like to maintain a way
for them to return to your site ... ?  May I suggest that you target
all off site links to a new window of their own ...

Just a little "food" for thought.

-Tracker-