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Q: Training Tumbling /Roller Pigeons ( Answered 2 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Training Tumbling /Roller Pigeons
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: obelyx-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 14 Jan 2003 13:23 PST
Expires: 13 Feb 2003 13:23 PST
Question ID: 142655
I believe there are pigeon training masters in many islamic countries.
Has any material been published on their training methods. I am
looking for a detailed manual, or a CONTACT (English Speaking) for
someone somewhere, from whom I might learn more. I have the time and
willingness to travel in search of this knowledge.

Request for Question Clarification by nellie_bly-ga on 14 Jan 2003 17:29 PST
Would you be interested in contact information for tumbler
breeders/enthusiasts in Arabic countries and/or Eastern European
countries?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Training Tumbling /Roller Pigeons
Answered By: umiat-ga on 15 Jan 2003 15:58 PST
Rated:2 out of 5 stars
 
Hello, obelyx-ga!

  I never thought I would learn so much about roller pigeons! This
research has proven fascinating. However, I have had an extremely
difficult time locating pigeon trainers in Islamic countries, or
contacts. Since you said you are also seeking English training
manuals, I have also focused on that aspect as much as I can, but they
are primarily books produced in the United States. I also added as
much training information as I could find from US websites, but I know
you have probably already familiarized yourself with those methods and
are looking to expand your training ability.

  Although I did find many links to websites in India, and other
foreign countries, they were either outdated or written in another
language. So, the two foreign sources that follow seem to be your best
bet for finding the type of trainer you are searching for.

Training information from other countries
*********************************
 You are right about the use of Pigeon Trainers in other countries.
Just note this excerpt from a Pakistani website.

From Pakistan:
  “Normally all the competitions are held under the supervision of a
teacher. A knowledgeable teacher is very respectable person in pigeon
flying peoples. The students are very proud of winning the races and
they respect their teacher very much. Normally competitions are held
in the name of the teachers and not in the name of students. Teacher
looks after the pigeons when they flew back, select and decide the
pigeon for flying, give medications to the pigeon during the training
period and especially when pigeon returned after their long flight. He
selects the pigeon that would be flown in the competition.”
Read “Origin of the Tippler,” at
http://minhas.www8.50megs.com/articls.htm

 Though there is no contact information for the author in the above
article, I did find another site with an article that lists an e-mail
address for him as a link!

  The author’s home page, called “Fancy Pigeon Breeder from Pakistan”
is located at http://pigeons.coolfreepage.com/index.htm  and was last
updated 10/29/2002. His e-mail link should be current. I imagine he
would be a great source of information about Pigeon Training Masters
in Pakistan, since he mentioned the use of teachers in his article on
“Tipplers.”

 You may also want to read another interesting article by him, titled
“Pigeon Keeping in Pakistan” at
http://pigeons.coolfreepage.com/article5.htm .

From the article, it sounds like Pakistan is the place to find a
teacher!!!!


United Arab Emirates
********************
  The Dubai Racing Pigeon Club website is at
http://www.angelfire.com/in/zajel/ . Though they have many links, I
did not find anything particularly related to training. However, they
have a phone number to contact the Secretary of the club. You may be
able to get some references to teachers or training manuals.

 Some other international links are available on Pigeon Links at
http://www.ris.net/~tony/pigeons/links.html#international . However, I
did not find anything useful.

The following information centers on pigeon tumbler training in the
US. As I realize, it may all be knowledge you have accessed in the
past. However, I thought at least some of the information might prove
useful.

Training Articles
***************
 The first site I had some success with was National Birmingham Roller
Club at http://www.birmingham-rollers.com/
 I found some articles on training from their March 2001 newsletter at
 http://www.birmingham-rollers.com/article/index.html  
  The articles are broken down into 3 parts:
   Getting Your Kit Ready
   The Phases of Training
   Who Said Velocity Was Dead

From the introduction to “Getting Your Kit Ready:” 
http://www.birmingham-rollers.com/article/training1.htm 
 "In order to get your rollers ready for competition there are two
primary aspects that should be considered in the following order,
first the PHYSICAL condition of your rollers and second is the
PSYCHOLOGICAL aspect."
 "Rollers have to feel good physically in order to WANT to roll and
must be in good condition to roll hard with speed. Feeling good is
part mental brought on by being in good health and physical
condition."
 "Psychologically you need to stress the birds to reduce their natural
resistance to rolling, stressing the birds mentally puts them on edge.
The stress created excites the birds when released and induces the
full measure of roll that your rollers are capable of doing. This
doesn't mean it will make silk purses out of sow's ears, it means it
will help you get the most out of what your birds are capable of
doing."
 "You have seen this mental stress, maybe without knowing it, for
example, when a hawk fly's in near the kit. The kit will group up
closer to each other and in some instances will break into the roll at
exactly the same time, this is what we will try to induce artificially
during our kit preparation."
(The article continues with physical and psychological conditioning)

From the Introduction to “The Phase of Training”
http://www.birmingham-rollers.com/article/training2.htm 
 “Much has been written about how to properly train the Birmingham
roller. Most of the articles I have read concerning this subject
usually only address one of the several phases of the training
process. Rollers develop through several different phases. The first
phase is starting with good breeding stock and healthy babies. The
second phase is weaning the youngsters from their parents. The second
is young bird training, which continues until the birds are rolling
with stability. The fourth phase is when you start to create a kit of
perfor6ng rollers. And the fifth phase is flying a mature, hard
working kit of rollers. I do not profess to know all the answers, or
to be an authority on this subject. I have been fortunate to have had
some success the last couple of years, and have developed a philosophy
that works well for me. I owe thanks to Rod Elsner, Monty Neibel, and
Jerry Higgins for the bulk of this information, and for teaching me
how to be somewhat successful with my pigeons. Please understand, that
it is not my intention to just regurgitate their @tings. I have worked
with these concepts, and know that it has helped my kits to be
consistent, and have made modifications to fit my family of birds, and
my local.
(The article continues with Good Breeding Stock, Weaning, Exercise and
Training, Competition Training, The Old Bird Kit)

The entire newsletter is quite fascinating, even to me!!!!

Training the Birmingham Roller - Books
******************************
 “Raising & Training the Birmingham Roller,” by Guil Rand 
  208 S 300 East 
  Spanish Fork, UT 84660 
  Phone # 801-798-1624
  $20 including shipping
  a book designed for our new fliers and others
http://www.blacklakelofts.com/links.htm 

The Birmingham Roller by WH Pensom write to: Karon Work
1925 Coventry Ct. Thousand Oaks, CA 91362 email; MRSKWORK@aol.com
$12 per copy +$2 shipping
http://www.blacklakelofts.com/links.htm
  (Please read the “Tribute to William Hyla Pensom,” by GB Peterson at
  http://members.tripod.com/pigeon00/tribute_to_wiliam_Hyla_Pensom.htm
 to see why I recommend this book. Apparently, he was the first to
write some comprehensive instructions on training Birmingham Tumblers.
An excerpt follows:
  “Although it was important that Pensom's essays were unusually well
written, stimulated the imagination, and were widely read, there was
something else about them that was far more important. The techniques
he described worked! Fanciers discovered that when they applied the
disciplined approach which Pensorn had outlined, their success with
the birds and their enjoyment of the hobby dramatically increased.
Suddenly there was a clear, practical method for training youngsters
and for managing flyers. and a system (though perhaps not so clear)
for choosing breeders and matching them into pairs. If one followed
the method and the system, one reaped rewards far in excess of that
which had attended the haphazard habits of the past. This
standardization of method, in turn, gave a coherence to the hobby
which it had never really had before, a coherence which fostered far
more interaction among Roller fanciers.”)

Training Turkish Tumblers
*********************
http://www.turkishtumblers.com/ 
 A lengthy article about training Turkish Tumblers is available at
http://www.turkishtumblers.com/Takla6.htm

Dark Training
**************
 “I have also been asked by what method I train my birds to fly in the
dark. Well, in the first place, before attempting to do this I must
look some time ahead and make sure that my youngsters are fully
trained to do their jib in the daylight, as when they are earmarked
for dark flying as yearlings, then if they have made either no
mistakes, or the minimum number of mistakes as youngsters, then this
is something towards their training in the dark. I start off at the
end of February or even well into March, according to the weather,
with a kit of yearlings such as I have just mentioned. Whilst still
keeping them very fit, I adjust their food in order to make them very
sharp and looking for food. I then liberate them one at a time as
early in the day as possible, in order to get them down well before
dusk. I do this for some days until the kit can be turned out as a
kit, and fly for a reasonable time. I then adjust the food and make
the birds sharper still, whilst watching them very carefully in order
to keep up their fitness. After this has been done, I commence to
liberate the kit one hour or less before dark. The birds will alight
during the daylight, but close to dark. I then leave them to stay upon
the loft top, placing the lights on at dusk, and leave them there with
the droppers for at least one hour into the dark. During this period,
I remain with he birds all the time in order to ensure that they are
not disturbed by cats. Every endeavor must be made during this period
to try to get the birds to move around the loft, and flutter up and
down, to get them used to alighting upon the loft in the dark. The
easiest way to do this is to have a small loft apart from the main
one, and entice them to fly from one loft, and backwards and forwards,
by offering them a grain or two of barley. Of course, a separate light
must be fixed on the small loft. I use two 100 watt bulbs on the main
loft suspended about three feet above the roof, with shades to guide
the light downwards. A 60 watt bulb is ample for the small loft. The
birds must not be frightened at any time, and you must endeavor to
gain their confidence, and teach them to know you and the loft
surroundings by dark as they would in the daylight. When you have done
this as I have mentioned for at least a week, the kit can be turned
out at dusk, they should be then left for no more than a few minutes,
before the lights are turned on, and the droppers released. They
should then be attracted back down to the loft as soon as possible. If
the birds are not really hungry and sharp at this stage, they may
decide to stay out until daylight of the next day and consequently be
of no further use for dark flying. If one is successful at attracting
the birds down onto the loft at the first attempt, then a little more
food should be given, and gradually the birds will fly longer in the
dark, and come down obediently when the lights are put on and droppers
released. In the first few weeks of dark flying, the patience and care
of the fancier will make or break, both himself and the birds. The kit
will usually not alight back onto the loft in the dark until they have
split away from one another and they may fly for hours on their own in
the dark. This will test the endurance of the fancier and if he wants
to be successful, he must wait for his birds, at the same time keeping
his droppers moving. This may entail waiting for up to three hours for
and extra-fit bird to come. The weather may be very cold, very wet, or
to some other extreme, but it is no use leaving a bird out al night,
because once it has done this, it is more than likely to do it again.”
Gordon Hughes at http://www.aldl18706.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/TIP%27S.htm

 Another link I tried to access was to the “Roller Journal Online,”
which mentions articles about training. However, the link was broken.
I don’t know if you can find a nearby club that has this journal. If
you already own it, then I suppose it has not been much use!

D.A. Henderson’s Roller Loft’s webpage has some great links to the
individual clubs.  http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/4396/
  Click on the link for Roller Clubs and you will get a complete list
of clubs in the US, with contacts. That may be one source for trainers
in the US, but it will take an effort to contact them all. And
hopefully, a contact from one of the clubs might have access to
information about Islamic trainers, or at least some references to
their training techniques.

 I realize that only the first two links are truly applicable to your
question, but I sure hope they prove fruitful. It was virtually
impossible to find anything else, due to broken links and language
translation.
 
 Let me know if I can be of further help, please!

 umiat-ga

Google Search Strategy
tumbling  pigeons  training
+trainers +roller +pigeons
+training +birmingham +rollers
pakistan  pigeon flying
+india +tumbler pigeons +training

Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 15 Jan 2003 22:45 PST
obelyx, 

 I’ve found a few more links that may provide contact information. 

 First, I want to reiterate that the contact I gave for you in
Pakistan does also mention work with tumbler pigeons, so I would still
use him as a contact.

India
 I found the website of a pigeon “lover” in India. He does not mention
working with tumbling pigeons, but he is a contact, nevertheless. I
would imagine, from the amount of work he does with his own pigeons,
that he would be able to give you information concerning those in
India who train tumbling pigeons.
Please refer to Liju Thomas’ website at
http://valuenet2000.com/pigeons/Default.asp?site=pigeons&url_path=http://valuenet2000.com/pigeons/contact.asp&layout=4&info=5&page_Id=1
His contact address is also listed: 
 Liju Thomas, Pallath House, Thammanam P.O , Cochin-682 032, Kerala,
India. E-mail : pallankuries@satyam.net.in Ph# : 98460 92047
http://valuenet2000.com/pigeons/contact.asp?site=pigeons&url_path=http://valuenet2000.com/pigeons/default.asp&layout=1&info=5&page_Id=3

Egypt
 The homepage of a trainer and breeder of Egyption Swift pigeons is
located at http://www.mourad.freeservers.com/  He mentions that he is
a member of the Egyptian Society for Swifts and Fancy Pigeons.
Therefore, he may be able to get you in touch with a trainer of
tumbling pigeons. His contact link is on the left side of the page.

Saudi Arabia
http://www.mykamikazepigeon.ws/Collections.htm 
 Tumblers are not mentioned specifically, but again, another contact
for references to a trainer.
About me: http://www.mykamikazepigeon.ws/About%20Me.htm 
Contact information is at
http://www.mykamikazepigeon.ws/Contact%20page.htm
e-mail:pigeonjj@yahoo.com
pigeonjj@hotmail.com
P.O.Box 5635 Jeddah 21432 K.S.A.

Kuwait
A breeder of tumbler pigeons at http://kuwaitpigeons.tripod.com/ 
He may be a good resource for trainers of tumblers.
Contact information is :
al-bannai@maktoob.com
 
umiat

Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 19 Jan 2003 23:45 PST
obelyx-ga,

 I am sorry my answer did not meet your expectations. I thought you
had asked, as stated in your question, for "sources of a detailed
manual" for training tumblers, or "contact" with someone who speaks
English who might at least direct you to someone who knows a trainer.
 However, it was unclear from your question that your were actually
hoping to find a researcher who had "direct knowledge of training or
someone who trained tumblers." I also did not know what resources you
already had....therefore, I tried to be as complete as I could.
 If you consider using Google Answers in the future, please ask for
additional clarification before rating an answer. You are actually
rating the researchers ability, and when expectations for an answer
are explained in the comments that differ a bit from the question
asked, the low stars are an indication that the researcher did not
perform their duty as asked. Thus, it significantly pulls down a
researchers standing and quality of performance.
 Had your original question stated that you wanted a researcher who
knew of a trainer, directly, I would not have tried to provide an
answer in the way that I did.
 I hope the sources work out for you. 

 umiat
 umiat
obelyx-ga rated this answer:2 out of 5 stars
A good deal of what you found, I had already found. I was really
looking for someone with direct knowledge or contact with trainers.
However, I will follow the contacts up and hope to travel to meet them
and learn from them. The art of training flyers seems more alive in
the us than in the united kingdom.
Christopher Roper

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