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| Subject:
Zero versus "oh"
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference Asked by: knowitall22-ga List Price: $3.00 |
Posted:
16 Jan 2003 13:31 PST
Expires: 15 Feb 2003 13:31 PST Question ID: 144378 |
Is there an approved or definitive usage for pronunciation of the numeral zero? In speaking a series of numerals, such as a phone number, prounouncing it as "zero" seems best. But if we speak of the year 1908, or the time as 12:04, it is usually pronounced "oh". Presumably it is idiomatic, neither is wrong or right. |
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| There is no answer at this time. |
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| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: pinkfreud-ga on 16 Jan 2003 14:13 PST |
Oddly, there aren't many online resources that deal with this matter, other than guidelines for radio transmissions (where the number '0' is always pronounced 'zee-ro' so that it will not be mistaken for the letter 'O'.) Here a distinction is made between British and American usages: "Zero is the number 0. American speakers use zero in both conversation and writing. In British English, zero is normally used only in scientific writing. The path coefficient is now greater than zero. The gravitational pull would grow weaker until we reached the verycentre of the planet, where it would be zero. In conversation, British speakers usually say nought or oh. Nought point nine You arrive at Palma at oh two thirty five." http://www.uni-potsdam.de/u/spz/wl/PH001018-31.html A discussion of the pronunciation of the numeral '0' as it is used in dates: http://home.mn.rr.com/wagger/theyear.html Here's a long newsgroup thread on the subject of '0' as pronounced in clock times: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&th=d4b216d87ce53bea&rnum=5 I am old enough to recall that when the first James Bond film, "Dr. No," was released in the United States, quite a few Ian Fleming fans in the United States were surprised to learn that their favorite secret agent was not "Oh Oh Seven" (as many Americans would pronounce '007',) but "Double Oh Seven." |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: tehuti-ga on 16 Jan 2003 15:58 PST |
I'm not sure it's quite that standardised in the UK. I live there and rarely use "nought". In fact, the only obvious situation in which I would use it would be in speaking a decimal, such as 0.9. On the whole, I tend to say "oh", but on the telephone, if I'm dicatating a number to someone, I use "zero" because I think it is easier to understand. If I want to give a time, I would simply say two-thirty-five, not oh-two-etc. However, I would most probably qualify this with "in the morning" or "in the afternoon" or with "AM" or "PM". I would never give the time as 14.35. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: houstonguy-ga on 16 Jan 2003 17:13 PST |
then there is 'aught' as in ".30-06" and "Double-aught buck" used in the gunning community. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: knowitall22-ga on 16 Jan 2003 18:11 PST |
To pinkfreud: It is gratifying to learn you are of the age that rememembers "Dr. No". Do the British also use "zed"? As always, your comments and answers are marvelous. Apropos of nothing, do you care to reveal the hidden meaning of your signature pinkfreud? |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: luciaphile-ga on 16 Jan 2003 18:14 PST |
Or aught as in the aughts ("There wasn't a Gary consevatory until
aught six" (1906)).
Regards,
luciaphile-ga |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: pinkfreud-ga on 16 Jan 2003 18:21 PST |
knowitall22, Thanx for the kind words about my comments and answers! Regarding my screen name, I hope you won't be disappointed to learn that there isn't very much of a "hidden meaning." At least, it isn't hidden any more, since I once answered a GA question about it: http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=80023 ~pinkfreud |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: knowitall22-ga on 16 Jan 2003 18:26 PST |
tehuti-ga: Apparently not standardised anywhere. Didn't know you reside in the UK. Good show. How would you pronounce 12:05? Also, I like your offhand poetry: "On the whole,I tend to say "oh". OK, it isn't a perfect rhyme. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: knowitall22-ga on 16 Jan 2003 18:32 PST |
houstonguy and luciaphile; Indeed, "aught" is another synonym for zero that I hadn't considered. Isn't it probable that aught is a contraction of nought? |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: luciaphile-ga on 16 Jan 2003 18:49 PST |
Hi knowitall22-ga, According to my Webster's (Ninth New Collegiate), one of the definitions for aught has an etymology of: "resulting from incorrect division of a naught" p115 Regards, luciaphile-ga |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: luciaphile-ga on 16 Jan 2003 19:00 PST |
Well, this is interesting. The OED has this to say about "ought": "vulgar corruption of NOUGHT in sense 'cipher.' Then it goes on: "Prob. originating in an erroneous division of a nought as an ought; but by many associated with the figure 0 of the cipher, which they take as the initial O of ought. oughts and crosses, a children's game with a figure containing nine spaces, which are filled up by two players alternately with ciphers and crosses, the object of each being to place three of one kind in a line; = noughts and crosses." |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: leep-ga on 16 Jan 2003 19:10 PST |
In my younger days I once had an algebra teacher who was very insistent that we say "zero" in class and never "oh" since, as he put it, "'oh' is never used in proper society." I remember talking to him one day in the hallway and pointing out to him that the recorded voice the phone company uses (as in "The number you have reached...") said "oh" and not "zero" (...I'm not certain if it's still this way). The teacher didn't really seem to care. And speaking of noughts, I recommend viewing Peter Greenaway's "A Zed & Two Noughts": http://us.imdb.com/Title?0090366 |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: tehuti-ga on 16 Jan 2003 19:17 PST |
OK then, knowitall, I'd better polish up my rhyme and metre! :) "I'll tell you though, I tend to say "oh"" We definitely say "zed" in the UK, even though it messes up the Sesame Street song. 12.05 - I'd say "twelve-oh-five" if I wanted to say it that way, but if it referred to time, I'd most probably say "five past twelve", or "five past midday/midnight" as appropriate. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: tehuti-ga on 16 Jan 2003 19:20 PST |
Up North (England I mean), they say nowt to mean nothing and owt to mean anything. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: sublime1-ga on 16 Jan 2003 19:48 PST |
There aught to be a law, but it seems there's nawt. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: knowitall22-ga on 16 Jan 2003 20:33 PST |
To all who commented: A marvelous, enlightening series of comments. Many thanks to all of you for an informative and entertaining dialogue. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: jeremymiles-ga on 17 Jan 2003 12:15 PST |
I gave a presentation at a German university once (in English), and most of the audience were confused by my use of point-oh-five (for 0.05). I was surprised, as they had no problem with everything else I said. |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: kriswrite-ga on 21 Jan 2003 10:32 PST |
Just a quick thought to add to this discussion: I once knew an American fellow who threw tizzies when someone pronounced the number zero as "oh." "Oh is a LETTER," he'd say, "not a number." He never considered, apparently, that "oh" is almost certainly an abbreviated version of "zerO." |
| Subject:
Re: Zero versus "oh"
From: knowitall22-ga on 21 Jan 2003 17:02 PST |
To kriswrite: A most enlightening comment. Never thought of that, and it explains and justifies pronouncing zero as "oh". Many thanks. knowitall22 |
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