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Q: Officer wrote nonexistant location on ticket... ( Answered 3 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Officer wrote nonexistant location on ticket...
Category: Relationships and Society > Law
Asked by: alexander-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 20 Jan 2003 02:34 PST
Expires: 19 Feb 2003 02:34 PST
Question ID: 145837
I'm the proud owner of a traffic citation written in Santa Clara
County, CA. In the "Location of Violation" section, the officer wrote
what are presumably two street names, and in the "City/County of
Occurrence" section, wrote the name of a city and "S. Clara."

Thing is, the intersection specified does not exist in the city
specified. The officer may have made an error and listed a wrong
street, the wrong city, both, or something else. Either way, this
doesn't change the fact that as written, the ticket does not
accurately specify a location on the map without being
self-contradicting.

I'm trying to figure out how best to handle this. One option is a
trial by declaration. If I do this, is it likely that the citation
will be dismissed based on this problem alone? (That's the core
question; must be addressed with some kind of evidence or experience.)
What is the best way to protest the issue? (e.g. "How can I be charged
with a crime alleged to have taken place in a nonexistant location",
"officer's powers of observation at the time must be called into
question", simply "intersection does not exist", something else?) Do I
simply need to state the fact that there is no such intersection, or
would I need to provide some kind of evidence? (what?)
Answer  
Subject: Re: Officer wrote nonexistant location on ticket...
Answered By: skermit-ga on 20 Jan 2003 04:12 PST
Rated:3 out of 5 stars
 
Wow, second question about traffic citations in a row. While not
necessarily a speeding ticket, a lot applies concerning validity of
court evidence. Please take the time to read my answer for a question
on a LIDAR ticket here:

https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=145821

What seems to be a reoccurring message concerning your specific
question on the websites that I've visited today dealing with fighting
traffic tickets is the difference between a fatal flaw and simple
mistake. Let me quote from a couple guides on fighting traffic
tickets.


"
If there are technicalities, such as the officer was out of his
jurisdictional area, he cited the wrong code, or the address is wrong
on the ticket. They are worth trying but don't expect them to get you
a dismissal except for a jurisdictional issue. If you plan on using
this as your sole form of defense, you may be caught unaware when the
Judge over rules on your motion to dismiss, simply because of a simple
error.
"

"
If the ticket contains a fatal flaw, the court can dismiss the ticket.
An example of a fatal flaw is if the defendant's name is not on it, or
there is no offence date, or no location, or if the officer did not
sign the ticket. A minor error such as a misspelled name is not a
fatal flaw.
"

"
But sometimes there will be a technical error on the face of the
ticket which affects the prosecution's ability to prove the
fundamental or specific elements of the offence. For example, the date
or location may be wrong. Your name may be misspelled and your
identity thus put in doubt. If the prosecution fails to catch these
errors and presents evidence to the court which either confirms the
error or is inconsistent with the written ticket, draw these errors to
the attention of the Justice of the Peace after the prosecution's case
is finished. In most cases, the prosecution will be allowed to amend
the ticket to accord with the facts. But if the error is misleading,
or prevents you from answering the charge properly, you may be able to
get an adjournment (a later hearing date) which will give you a chance
to reconsider your defense.
"

"
More important than "when" the alleged offense occurred is "where" it
occurred. The jurisdiction of courts in Colorado is limited by
districts which correspond to cities or counties. In order for a court
to have jurisdiction over a complaint or ticket, the ticket must
allege that the offense occurred within the court's jurisdiction. For
instance, a yellow Municipal Court ticket must allege that the offense
occurred within the city limits. A white County Court ticket must
allege that the offense occurred within the county limits.
"

Although my suggestions follow what the other websites have said, they
are suggestions none the less, and you should go with what you feel
would be the most successful route. These are just four of the guides
that I've read, and the consensus is while an error of a large
magnitude (car color is wrong, etc.) may get a ticket dismissed, I'm
not sure that your defense would hold up in your particular case. You
say that the intersection written down does not exist. Is it two
streets that are in the general location in Santa Clara County? That
might not be enough to get the ticket thrown out and your case
dismissed. If the officer wrote down an ambiguous or false address in
order to cover for not being in his jurisdiction when you were pulled
over that's another topic altogether. Your defense relies on the
Judge's discretion on whether or not he feels the mix up was a simple
mistake or not. Regardless of how you think the Judge will react, you
should definitely go back to the location that you were pulled over
and take some pictures, find the correct location and document it
thoroughly. Make a point to at least bring up the point with the
Judge. Press hard about what you said, "How can I be charged with a
crime alleged to have taken place in a nonexistent location". If he
dismisses it, well you tried, and at least it's still in his mind that
the officer made a mistake. It might be one factor in many which could
get your fine lessened. My suggestion would be to read over the "Pay
No Fine" book (link below) as it's VERY helpful in traffic court. They
walk you through a sample trial, and go over what you should know
beforehand and how you should proceed. They discuss different
strategies, and outline some terminology you might come across.

Also you should find out what violation you are charged with on the
ticket, and read up as much as you can on it. If you post the
violation number and description as a clarification, I can find more
information in the county's traffic code. If you are pressured by
other circumstances (like having one too many tickets already) and are
in jeopardy of losing your license, then I suggest giving up on self
defense completely (but still doing the research) and hiring a defense
lawyer which has a specialty in cases such as this.


Search Strategy:

speeding ticket wrong location on google:
://www.google.com/search?q=speeding+ticket+wrong+location


Additional Links:

"Pay No Fine" (full text book):
http://www.blackmarket-press.com/info/books/pay_no_fine.pdf

Quoted passage above:
http://www.frascona.com/resource/dlc292st.htm

Quoted passage above:
http://www.norman-law.com/page13.html

Quoted passage above:
http://www.legalline.ca/highway/520.html

Quoted passage above:
http://vvv.com/~lawcentre/tickets.html


Thank you for the opportunity to answer your question, if you require
more information, please clarify the question, or if you find this
answer satisfactory, please feel free to rate it. Thank you!
  
skermit-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by alexander-ga on 20 Jan 2003 04:56 PST
Hi skermit,

Thanks for the information. While it is all of interest, one thing
that concerns me is that you quote sources dealing specifically with
other jurisdictions and their laws, e.g. Colorado and Canada. While
there may be similarities, I would appreciate some reference to
California law (possibly the Vechicle Code) or as to how it is
practiced in California that addresses what seems to the crucial issue
-- whether or not this is a "fatal flaw". (If that term even applies
to California; the page you quoted that refers to it is in regards to
Canadian law and its practice.)

Also, there is a sentence in the frascona.com link that raises an
eyebrow -- "If the city is printed on the ticket, make sure the
location of the offense, which the officer must write in, is within
city limits." I don't believe jurisdiction plays a role in this case,
but it appears to be a similar sort of error.

Clarification of Answer by skermit-ga on 20 Jan 2003 05:14 PST
The point I was trying to make was that it's really at the Judge's
discretion on whether or not a mistake becomes a fatal flaw. I said to
try to press the jurisdiction issue because you said the streets
aren't in the city marked. I'm sorry about the Canadian link. I viewed
to many pages, I just went back through my history and did a page by
page search for location. If you could give me the violation code and
description, I could you further in that regard, but as to the
question of whether or not location should be your sole defense?
Definately not.

skermit-ga
alexander-ga rated this answer:3 out of 5 stars
Provided some interesting links, but not enough directly relevant
information that I feel confident in the advice.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Officer wrote nonexistant location on ticket...
From: probonopublico-ga on 20 Jan 2003 05:20 PST
 
Here in Brighton & Hove (UK, where I live) a parking ticket issued by
a Traffic Warden was deemed invalid because the Warden wasn't wearing
his cap!

(The law states that the warden must be in full uniform.)

Just a thought!

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