What are the terms of the collective bargaining agreement
between the bayport bluepoint school district and school psychologists |
Clarification of Question by
psyd1996-ga
on
21 Jan 2003 14:34 PST
The Bayport Bluepoint school district is located in Suffolk county New
York. It is unclear if School Psychologists are considered teachers
and covered by the teachers Association Agreement or are
Administrators. A copy of the teachers agreement for the period July1,
1998 to June 30, 2002 does not mention school psychologists although
guidance counselors are mentioned.
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Request for Question Clarification by
czh-ga
on
21 Jan 2003 16:16 PST
Hello psyd1996-ga,
I’ve done some preliminary research on your question and I could help
you better if I had some additional information.
Which union has the contract with the Bayport Bluepoint school
district? Is it the local chapter of the New York State United
Teachers? http://nysut.org You say that you’ve researched the 1998 –
2002 contract and it’s inconclusive. Is there a new contract? Have you
approached the teacher’s association to get the information? Has this
question been contested by school psychologists? What research have
you done already? I don’t want to duplicate your efforts. Looking at
the price of your question, it’s obviously very important to you. Is
there any additional information you could share about the situation
you’re researching so that I can do a better job for you? I look
forward to your clarification.
czh
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Clarification of Question by
psyd1996-ga
on
22 Jan 2003 09:56 PST
I do not know what union the district has the contract with but I DO
KNOW THAT THE CONTRACT RAN OUT jUNE 2002 AND A NEW ONE IS STILL BEING
NEGOTIATED. I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER THE INFORMATION I HAVE REGARDING
TEACHERS APPLIES TO SCHOOL pSYCHOLOGISTS OR NOT AND IF THERE IS AN
ADDENDUM OR OTHER ARTICLE THAT SPECIFICALLY APPLIES TO SCHOOL
PSYCHOLOGISTS SINCE THEY ARE NOT MENTIONED AT ALL IN THE AGREEMENT I
HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO WHICH WAS WAS GIVEN TO ME BY THE SUPERINTENDENT
OF SCHOOLS SECRETARY.
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
23 Jan 2003 16:27 PST
I have it on good authority that school psychologists are not
considered teachers under ordinary circumstances, but are instead
classified in the category of "pupil personnel services". However,
this distinction would not bear particular weight if a contract were
to specifically include school psychologists as subject to the same
contractural arrangement as teachers.
If the contract you have does not specifically include school
psychologists, my reading (as a non-lawyer...don't take this as
gospel!) is that they would be considered "pupil personnel services"
rather than teachers.
I haven't posted this as an answer because it hardly seems $200 worth
of information, and I'm not sure it really meets your needs. You seem
to have a copy of the Teachers Agreement, so I'm not sure what
additional documentation you need. But if you can let us know how we
can address your situation more completely, perhaps I or another
reasearcher can provide some additional information here as an answer.
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Clarification of Question by
psyd1996-ga
on
24 Jan 2003 21:05 PST
I want to know for certain if the copy of the agreement which I was
given applies to school psychologists or not. I spoke with a former
and now retired union rep who said that it does apply. He was
surprised to learn of no mention of school psychologists. He did say
school psychologists are given automatic credit for a MA plus 60
graduate credits pay grade, whereas teachers are not. The agreement I
have does not indicate anything with regard to school psychologists so
I am a bit skeptical.
Pupil Personnel Services applies to all personnel not just school
psychologists. School districts often have a superintendent for Pupil
Personnel Services who has jurisdiction over hiring of all
professional personnel including teachers and psychologists. Under the
Superintendent are Directors and so on, who are admisnitrative
personnel. In some districts school psychologists are considered as
part of this administrative hierarchy while in other districts they
are not administrators at all and they are classfied with teachers.
Often school psychologists have salaries that are say 10 percent
higher than teachers with similar educational credits. I do not know
what the situation is in Bayport Bluepoint regarding these issues.
That is what I am trying to find out. It may be as the former union
rep told me ; that it is not in any contract or agreement but
something traditionally done. That would mean that there was no
differentiation between teachers and school psychologists regarding
pay scale except at the level of approval necessary for claiming
educational credits toward a salary level; one being automatic the
other needing superintendents approval. I hope this can clarify the
matter.
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Request for Question Clarification by
czh-ga
on
28 Jan 2003 04:42 PST
Hello again psyd1996-ga,
I’ve been thinking about your situation since I posted my first
request for clarification. The additional information you shared
helped to add dimensions to you question, but I’m still not sure how
to get the information you need. Let me summarize what I think I know
and highlight the missing pieces. I hope that with the additional
information we can come up with a strategy for helping you get what
you need.
Here are the facts and questions as I see them. Please verify if I
understand your situation correctly, straighten me out where I’ve
jumped to the wrong conclusions, and generally help fill in the
blanks.
You want to know whether school psychologists are covered by the
collective bargaining agreement between the Bayport Bluepoint School
District and the union.
Is the union in question the Bayport-Blue Point Teachers Association?
http://nysut.org/bayportbluepoint/
If yes, have you tried contacting Marcia Meirowitz, who is listed as
the President? Marcia Meirowitz, President
Bayport-Blue Point Teachers Association
Phone: 516.567.3415
Email:marcia_meirow@msn.com
If this is not the correct union and union president, what additional
information can you give me about the union?
Are you a member of the union? You said you talked to a retired union
rep and got some information. Why is there a difficulty with
contacting an active union rep or an official of the union?
What is your status with the school district? Are you an employee?
contractor? job applicant? other?
You said that the contract expired in July 2002 and that there is no
new contract. Does the lack of a contract impact current hiring? Is
there a hiring freeze? Is something else going on that’s impacting
your situation?
Apparently you cannot ask the school district directly about the pay
rate and union status of the school psychologist job. Can you explain
why this is not possible?
Can you tell me who would be the appropriate person to contact at the
school district for this information? Is there a superintendent? the
HR department? the principal of a particular school? What information
can you share on this?
I would very much like to help you either by getting you the
information you need or developing a strategy so you can get the
information for yourself. Please tell me more about your situation so
I can develop an approach for getting you the information you require.
Thanks.
czh
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Clarification of Question by
psyd1996-ga
on
28 Jan 2003 08:34 PST
I am an applicant for a position as school psychologist at Bayport
Bluepoint. I do not feel comfortable asking too many questions of
administrators who are contemplating hiring me because that might
prompt them to decline hiring me. The same applies to current union
representatives. It is a small district and I have no idea how close
the union president actually is with the adminsitration. In my last
school, the union rep seemed to be a spy for administration. This may
sound paranoid but that was the situtation.
As far as I can tell you have the right union. This Marcia Myerowitz
might speak to you and give you the information and you could say you
are inquiring about not just psychologists but social workers, speech
and language pathologists, and other service providers such as
Occupational therapists. Make up a plausible reason why you want this
information. Maybe you are a student doing research on collective
bargaining agreements for teachers, school psychologists and other
personnel, I don't know what to tell you really.(All I know is I do
not want to raise any suspicions.) The social workers, speech and
langauge pathologists etc..also do not appear in the agreement I have
been referring to. The only other title mentioned is Guidance
Counselor. I hope this clarifies the matter for you.
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Request for Question Clarification by
czh-ga
on
29 Jan 2003 14:05 PST
Hello again psyd1996-ga,
Thanks for the additional details of your situation. I feel reluctant
to make a direct contact because of your caution about the politics in
the school district and your fear that your situation might be
compromised if you asked for concrete information.
I’ve been thinking about your situation to try to come up with an
alternate method to get what you need. As I understand it, you would
like to know the salary scales for school psychologists in Bayport
Bluepoint. The question about the collective bargaining agreement is
simply an avenue for getting the salary information. If you get a job
offer, it will be based on how the school district interprets the
provisions of whatever contract is in effect.
So, is there some other way of getting you the salary information you
need? I’ve done some preliminary research and I’ve found extensive
information about salary scales for school psychologists and the
conditions of their employment in both union and non-union settings.
As I see it, if you had a wealth of information available about what
school psychologists earn in other locations you would be well
prepared for salary negotiations should you get an offer.
Would this type of information meet your needs? I’m trying to be
creative about how to help you what you need without jeopardizing your
candidacy. I look forward to your answer.
czh
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Clarification of Question by
psyd1996-ga
on
29 Jan 2003 16:50 PST
I have already been given a salary figure which is far below what
appears to be in line with my experience of 7 years, according to the
"teacher" agreement I was given. The figure I was given fails to take
into account any of my experience and puts me at an entry level of 1
when I shouild be at an entry level of 6 or 7. The difference in slary
is about $15,000, which I think is quite a difference. I was told by
the former Union rep that this is usually what leave replacement
postions receive. I really do not have a good bargaining position if
that is the procedure that the district follows. I have no way of
finding out if this is true or not.
I already know what other districts are paying school psychologists,
that is not what I need to find out. I simply want to know if the
salary scales and teacher agreement I have been given, which covers
teachers, also covers school psychologists, since they are not
mentioned at all as being covered in the text. I need to find out
where I stand in this matter because it has been represented to me
that salary is not negotiable but is a matter of a collective
bargaining agreement. Obviously something is awry with that as I am
already not being given credit for the years of experience I have. It
is also possible that there are additional agreement amendments which
specifically mention school psychologists and indicate that I should
also be entitled to other benefits or salary differentials. In my
prior job there was a base salary and then school psychologists
received a salary differential and in addition another differential
for anyone with a doctoral degree. The agreement I have been given
does not state that there are any such differentials but that does not
mean they do not exist. The district is in the midst of negotiating a
new agreement and I think that they would try to conserve funds as
much as they possibly could. This might mean giving me an agreement
that was incomplete, stating that salary was not negotiable, not
counting my experience, etc.. What I really want to know when you get
right down to it is how much money are they trying to cheat me out of.
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Request for Question Clarification by
czh-ga
on
30 Jan 2003 13:35 PST
Hello again,
Just to keep you posted. I can understand why you’re frustrated about
your search. I’m running into blind alleys tracking down the
information for you. I still have some contacts to try and hope to
have an answer for you soon.
czh
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