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Q: Origins of language and phrases ( No Answer,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Origins of language and phrases
Category: Reference, Education and News > Teaching and Research
Asked by: blinker-ga
List Price: $3.00
Posted: 25 Jan 2003 04:15 PST
Expires: 24 Feb 2003 04:15 PST
Question ID: 148337
What is the derivation of the phrase "unshirted hell", as in the statement
"George W. Bush caught unshirted hell from France and Germany for his
policies on Iraq."
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Origins of language and phrases
From: skermit-ga on 25 Jan 2003 05:12 PST
 
I found this on a discussion about phrase etymology:

"
UNSHIRTED HELL – noun, U.S., Serious trouble; ‘a bad time.’ 1932. H.
Kissinger: I’ve been catching unshirted hell every half-hour from the
President who says we’re not tough enough. (1979). “The Oxford
Dictionary of Modern Slang” by John Ayto and John Simpson (Oxford
University Press, Oxford and New York, 1996).
"

But sadly I don't see an etymology for it. I don't know how they came
up with a year of 1932, but it is an old phrase. Some users on the
forum speculated that it had to do with the British slang to get
shirty (or annoyed) at somebody, but nothing concrete or definite.

The earliest quote I could find using the phrase was from William
Mumford Tuck in 1946:

"
If the union leaders try to cut the lights out in Virginia, I'll
salivate them. I'll give them unshirted hell!
"

Weird choice of words there too. *shrug*


Search Strategy:

"unshirted hell" on google:
://www.google.com/search?q=%22unshirted+hell%22

phrase dictionary on google:
://www.google.com/search?q=phrase+dictionary


Additional Links:

"unshirted hell" discussion on Phrase Finder:
http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/837.html

William Mumford Tuck quote:
http://www.wm.edu/tlsc/resources/1999/rtw.htm


I'm posting this as a comment because it's not exactly what you're
looking for, but if it's acceptable, lemmie know.

skermit-ga
Subject: Re: Origins of language and phrases
From: jumpingjoe-ga on 26 Jan 2003 03:00 PST
 
Interesting question, and good research by skermit-ga. Something that
strikes me is that if you're about to fight someone, you take your
shirt off. If something's become serious then "the gloves have come
off". Angry = naked.

So... you could give someone hell, but if you really meant business
then hell would have taken its shirt off.

Pure speculation, but it's a good phrase, don't you think?
Subject: Re: Origins of language and phrases
From: fsw-ga on 26 Jan 2003 04:41 PST
 
Blinker,

Perhaps it is a play on words, using both the meaning suggested by
skermit-ga combined with the “last shirt” expression of protest in
Germany. Some Germans are literally sending their shirts to their
chancellor's office. You may read more about it in the links below.

Chain email might provide Chancellor Schroeder with thousands of
shirts
http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=13939

With pop song in hearts and shirts off their backs, Germans skewer
leader
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/2002/11/27/news/world/4613386.htm

Perhaps it means that the German-French position caused Bush much
difficulty, yet he was not subjected to same level of voter
frustration at home.

Just a guess,
fsw
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