|
|
Subject:
Hydrogen powered vehicles
Category: Science > Technology Asked by: knowitall22-ga List Price: $6.00 |
Posted:
25 Jan 2003 09:09 PST
Expires: 24 Feb 2003 09:09 PST Question ID: 148401 |
Hydrogen is a candidate fuel for non-polluting automobiles of the future. Its combustion product is water. Aside from hydrogen powered fuel cells, which are a remote possibility as an automotive power source, if hydrogen were used as fuel for an internal combustion engine, as a replacement for gasoline, the fuel explosion in the cylinders would also produce nitrogen oxides, would it not? Although CO2 is eliminated, other pollutants are formed. Thus, the question is: Is it possible to design a non-polluting internal combustion engine? |
|
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen powered vehicles
Answered By: krobert-ga on 25 Jan 2003 10:35 PST Rated: |
knowitall22-ga, Yes, NOx emissions are present in hydrogen powered internal combustion engines (ICE), but they are substantially reduced compared to gasoline powered engines. I'll refer you to this article: Ford P2000 Hydrogen ICE Car Debuts: http://www.autointell.com/News-2001/August-2001/August-2001-4/August-22-01-p8.htm As far as a nonpolluting ICE is concerned, let me offer this... Human beings can be considered a source of pollution depending on where you set the standard for a nonpolluting "engine". In the process of living we take in oxygen and produce substantial amounts of CO2 over the course of our lives (our product cycle if you will). Based on that comparison, lets consider a "nonpolluting" ICE. The engine has to emit something in order for it to produce energy from chemical reactions (which is how an ICE works). Lets assume that we can use pure hydrogen and pure oxygen for our fuel and oxydizer. With proper stoichiometric conditions we will emit steam (H20). Of course, in the real world, "reality" gets in the way. Stoichiometric conditions can be hoped for, but never perfectly attained... Meaning that we will probably end up with some "polluting" chemicals in the emissions. At the very least, the engine will need some kind of lubricant to keep it from seizing up. Lubricants, whether synthetic or natural, are made of hydrocarbons and other chemicals. The burning of the tiniest amount of lubricant and we will end up with polluting emissions: hydrocarbons, CO, CO2, NOx, and others. The real question is "what is an acceptable amount of polluting emissions". You must also consider the manufacturing process for the engine itself as well (since this can be considered part of the product life cycle). Casting an engine block, producing rubber seals, and making the various other parts of an ICE will produce polluting chemicals. Hope this answers your question. krobert-ga |
knowitall22-ga
rated this answer:
Thanks, Krobert-ga. As I suspected, there is indeed some NOx emission from a hydrogen powered ICE. It is a lesser amount than a conventional ICE (assuming the Ford engineers aren't fudging). The pollutants resulting from construction are not relevant to operation. A stoichiometric feed would require N-free oxygen supply...we can forget about that. Apparently fuel cells are the few truly non-polluting power sources known...if you don't mind waiting two hours for them to warm up. I feel obliged to comment on your comment about we humans producing CO2 and thus contributing pollution. Actually we, and all air breathing animals exhaling CO2 have derived our carbon intake from matter which has captured CO2 from the atmosphere somewhere in the food chain. Thus it is a steady-state process which is in balance. It used to bother me that our breathing increases the quantity of CO2 until I learned the above. Similarly,trees and vegetation in general are touted as CO2 sinks but actually are not. When a tree dies and decomposes, all its carbon is released back to the biosphere. Just another example of conservation of matter and energy. Thanks, knowitall22-ga |
|
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen powered vehicles
From: carnegie-ga on 25 Jan 2003 18:37 PST |
Dear Knowitall22, You suggest that "Hydrogen is a candidate fuel for non-polluting automobiles of the future". It is easy to make the mistake of believing that hydrogen-powered vehicles give rise to no pollution, but this is not the case. There is no natural source of hydrogen in the world, so it must be prepared by a process that itself will create pollution. One way is to split water into its constituent hydrogen and oxygen, but this requires the input of as much energy - in a practical system, somewhat more - than that realised in the road vehicle. This energy can come from fossil fuels, in which case the same pollution is created at the power station as would be if the vehicle used it directly. But it is possible, of course, to use nuclear energy or renewables such as hydro, solar, wind, wave, and tide to create the hydrogen, each less polluting that fossil fuels and impractical in a road vehicle. Another way of creating hydrogen is from hydrocarbon fuels, but this is effectivley burning part of the fuel to create the hydrogen, and again creates its own pollution. In considering all this, it is worth separating the local and global effects of pollution. If we are concerned about, say, oxides of nitrogen and of sulphur as injurious to health, then moving the use of fossil fuels from the vehicle to the power station is an advantage, both because the power station (unlike the vehicle) can be sited away from dense population and because it is economic to provide lower-polluting technology at the power station than is possible in the vehicle. Flue gas desulphurisation is surely cheaper in a power station chimney than in a vehicel exhaust. But global pollution, for example oxides of sulphur contributing to acid rain and carbon dioxide adding to the greenhouse effect, are not reduced by the use of hydrogen: merely moving the emissions does not in this case reduce the total effect on the global atmosphere, which is what matters. There is a letter from an academic written to the Northeastern Pennsylvania Times Leader explaining this at: http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/4100273.htm I trust this helps. Carnegie |
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen powered vehicles
From: knowitall22-ga on 25 Jan 2003 20:33 PST |
carnegie-ga: Many thanks for your comment. The phrase *non-polluting automobile* is of course not precise...it would have been better to use *minimum polluting automobile* or the like. I am well aware of the problems of shifting the energy source. As I mentioned above, the law of conservation of mass and energy is another way of saying *no free lunch*. CA legislators get a warm fuzzy feeling by passing a law that requires a % of zero emission autos. The emissions are merely transferred to the power plant, which may be more efficient in controlling them, but they are not zero. You state that substituting H for other fuels would not reduce total global pollution. But theoretically it could, if produced by nuclear energy splitting water into H and O; there are no gaseous pollutants emitted, even if one considers nuclear power as unacceptable. In the quoted article, Anson argues that there is insufficient generating capacity to produce significant quantities of H...true, but it is not impossible to conceive the scenario. Anson lumps nuclear with other power sources as polluting. Nuclear, solar, hydroelectric, and wind power could theoretically split water without emissions. Now, I am a retired chemist and I fully appreciate the conflict between theory and reality, having battled it for 45 years. I am not saying it will happen, only that it is possible. Thanks, knowitall22 |
If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you. |
Search Google Answers for |
Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy |