Dantana - -
I tackled both of your questions (Hytten and Hansen) on Friday,
thinking that Hytten would be easy because the spelling's unique. My
experience turned out to be the opposite!
I'm 90+% certain that we've found Harald Hansen. I will layout what
data is available and make recommendations for further research.
(Separately I'll comment on the Hytten question for you to let you
know what was tried.)
First, thank you for all of the details that you provided. American
records are often spotty, particularly before 1900, so sometimes
little details like middle names make a big difference.
But let's go – here's what I used:
U.S. CENSUS 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930
-----------------------------------
The U.S. Census has been indexed by the National Archives Records
Administration (NARA) and certain years and locations have Soundex
search capability. This allows a research to look for all names
similar to Hansen, then find the location.
In the 1920 and 1930 Census there is only one Harald or Harold Hansen
born in Norway who lives in the Cook County, Illinois, where Chicago
is located. He is the right age and migrated at the right time, which
makes me so confident that he's your relative. The census data that I
include may be important for you if you look up these records via
online services:
1920 CENSUS
------------
Chicago, Enumeration District (ED) 1690, sheet 2A
Taken: February 3, 1920
Street address: 2932 Elston Avenue (this house should still be there;
it's between the Kennedy Expressway and the Chicago River. A friend
of mine used to live 100 meters west of it. You can find the location
with Mapquest, www.mapquest.com).
Harald Hansen, age 35, immigrated to U.S. in 1903, naturalized 1917,
able to read and write; speaks English; is renting the house from
Felix Walcyk, who also lives there; is a laborer in the building
trades. Born in Norway of Norwegian parents.
Nora, wife, age 36, immigrated in 1904, naturalized 1918, able to read
and write; speaks English; works as a janitor for a medical instrument
company. Born in Norway of Norwegian parents.
Children (all born in Illinois):
Bertha E., 13
Evelyn H., 11
Harriet, 10
Esther W., 4 and 6 months
1930 CENSUS
------------
Chicago, ED 16-1262, sheet 10B
Street address: 1549 Lorel Avenue (about 8 km south of where they
lived in 1920, just west of Chicago's downtown).
In 1930 the spelling of his first name reverts to the American
fashion, Harold. Everyone is 10 years older. Harold is working as a
laborer, probably as a day laborer since it lists the industry as "odd
jobs." Nora is not working. The 1930 Census asks if people own a
radio; they do not.
The family is renting from a younger Norwegian couple, Chris and Sena
(spelling?) Salorson, who also live at this location.
Harriett's not in the house; Bertha is working as a stenographer at an
envelope company; Evelyn is also working as a stenographer (the
industry is difficult to decipher on the microfilms).
HOW TO FIND THESE CENSUS RECORDS
---------------------------------
I used microfilm at the NARA offices. However, two online services
offer access to the 1900-1930 Census records, which is as much as has
been released. Both are fee-based services but you may find it
attractive to use them for a short term. You might also check to see
if a major library near you has them available as an online service;
many U.S. public libraries do:
http://www.ancestry.com
http://www.gale.ancestry.com/ggmain.htm
FURTHER RESEARCH
-----------------
Though it's possible that some of the information here will confirm
that we have the right Harald, we're missing a middle initial that
would increase my confidence from 90% to 99%. The best way to go
about confirming his origins and parents names is to request his 1917
naturalization papers.
You have to request a copy of the "Petition for
Naturalization" and "Certificate of Naturalization" from the
Immigration and Naturalization Service using a 'Freedom of Information
Act' (FOIA) request. This process takes 4-6 months and undoubtedly
will be expedited if you provided a stamped return envelope:
U.S. Department of Justice
"FOIA Request Form"
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/g-639.htm
By the way, I would NOT recommend looking for ship or immigration
records before taking the step above. Many people came to the U.S.
through Canada, making the possibilities for ports-of-entry difficult
to isolate.
The naturalization information will answer many questions: when and
where he arrived; his parents names; his initial destination in the
U.S.; who is vouching for him as a citizen. Of course you can do the
same for Nora Hansen too!
I realize that some of this may be as clear as mud, so don't hesitate
to ask for a clarification before rating this answer.
Best regards,
Omnivorous-GA |
Request for Answer Clarification by
dantana-ga
on
05 Feb 2003 04:18 PST
Hi Omnivorous:
Your research is extremely comprehensive and very worthwhile -
especially if it turns out that this is, indeed, Harald Oscar Hansen.
Though we still wouldn't be 100% certain that it was him (we are
planning on going the obtaining the naturalization papers route if it
appears likely that it's him), we could be relatively certain if one
fact is verified. You stated that "He is the right age and migrated at
the right time, which makes me so confident that he's your relative."
But I was a little confused, then, by your comments in the area where
you sum up findings from the 1920 Census.
You stated:
"1920 CENSUS...
Harald Hansen, age 35, immigrated to U.S. in 1903, naturalized 1917,”
Does this mean that Harald Hansen was 35 at the time of the Census in
1920, or does it mean that Harald Hansen was 35 when he immigrated to
the U.S. in 1903?
If it means that Harald Hansen was 35 years old at the time of the
1920 Census (which, based on the wording, seems likely), then this
would mean that Harald was born around 1885. Given that we are quite
confident that the birthdate that we have for Harald, 1866, is fairly
accurate, then the difference in age would be so great as to make it
impossible for these two Harald Hansens to be one and the same person.
If that sentence meant, however, that Harald Hansen was 35 years old
when he came over to the United States in 1903, then it would make
more sense that this is the same person. That would put his birthday
that we have on record and the date according to the 1920 Census
within a few years of each other.
If it turns out that he was 35 at the time of the 1920 Census, then
there could be other avenues to go down. Based on what you could come
up with here, if you need to carry out further research in order to go
in another direction, then I would gladly pay a little bit more cash.
¤ It turns out that there was a mistake in the initial information I
gave you, in addition to my obtaining some further info from a
relative who is helping to carry out the project.
Harald Oscar’s mother’s name was actually JOSEFINE Hansen, not
Cathrine Hansen as previously stated (I apologize for the error) and
her maiden name was Josefine Berntsen.
We don’t know if Harald Oscar was married, but he had an
out-of-wedlock son (while he was in Norway) with Petra Cathrine
Larsen. This son never went to the States; he grew up with some
relatives. Petra might have come to the States later to meet up with
Oscar, but they didn’t go over at the same time. We don’t know if
Oscar had any other children.
Other questions/matters to look into:
¤ You mentioned that you looked at the U.S. Census results for both
1900 & 1910 - were there any mentions of Hansen(s) in either of
those two surveys in the Chicago area?
¤ It may make sense to look into Oscar Hansens in the Chicago area as
well. It's possible he ended out going by his middle name when he went
over to the States.
Again, thanks for all of your help, and I look forward to hearing back
from you.
|
Clarification of Answer by
omnivorous-ga
on
05 Feb 2003 04:49 PST
Dantana --
As meticulous as we are with these questions, we sometimes make
mistakes. I somehow read that Harald was born in 1886. The person
that I've found here was definitely born in 1885-1886.
Census data here lists people by their age at the time of the census,
though the enumeration can take place anywhere from January to July,
so age can change depending on a birthday.
What you saw in this listing is a detailing of what's in a U.S. Census
report from the period. Over time, Census information has become more
detailed, listing occupation in the 1920 Census and adding industry in
the 1930 Census. (Use of middle initials became far more common in
1930 as well.)
--
On the subject of Hansens in Chicago: there are dozens of them in each
of the four years for which public Census records are available: 1900,
1910, 1920, 1930. Chicago is a city of about 5 million people in that
timeframe.
The 1910 and 1920 censuses are indexed by name; 1900 and 1930 are NOT.
However, 1930 has index information (that may not be complete) online
at Ancestry.com and Ancestry Plus. I only have access to Ancestry
Plus. To give you an example of the types of problems that one runs
into: I know where my grandmother lives in Buffalo in 1930, yet can't
find her in the Ancestry Plus online index.
--
I chose the U.S. Census because I thought that it was the most-likely
way to find both families, Hansen and Hytten. Finding people via ship
or immigration records is difficult unless one knows both date of
arrival and port.
There are two other common ways to fill out family history here:
1. use of Rootsweb, where many people post family tree information:
http://www.rootsweb.com
2. searching the archives of the Church of Latter-Day Saints:
http://www.familysearch.org/
--
Here's what I'll do next:
1. check Ancestry Plus for Hansens in Chicago
2. go back to NARA files for 1910 to see how many we have from Norway
and their names. Obviously I'll doublecheck for Oscar. This will
take a couple of days.
I'll report back in several days via a Clarification Request so that
you receive an e-mail notifying you that additional information has
been posted.
Best regards,
Omnivorous-GA
|
Clarification of Answer by
omnivorous-ga
on
05 Feb 2003 11:49 PST
Dantana --
Progress report: I checked Ancestry Plus' index for 1920 and 1930
(they don't index 1910, though NARA does).
1930: 337 Hansen family listings in Chicago for people born in Norway.
The closest that I came was an Oscar, 67, but he emigrated in 1882.
1920: 307 Hansen family listings in Chicago for people born in Norway.
Here we find an Oscar, 52, but he emigrated in 1880 and was
naturalized in 1885.
I also found a Harold A., age 57 but Ancestry Plus didn't have the
detailed Census record. I'll have to crosscheck with NARA.
And I found an O. Hansen, 53. Again no detailed record.
Next follow-up: check NARA detail records for these two above; check
1900 and 1910 records.
Another note: Ancestry Plus records for a Hytten born in Norway shows
only one, a Bertha in New York City, in the years 1920/1930. Again I
have to note that these online records aren't always complete, but I'd
checked the microfilm records for Hytten in New York state last week
and couldn't find Petter.
BTW, I also did an Ancestry Plus scan for Friestad born in Norway.
There were 31 in 1930; 12 in 1920 -- none came close to Marie.
Best regards,
Omnivorous-GA
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
dantana-ga
on
18 Feb 2003 03:54 PST
Thanks for your continued search. We were so excited when we got your
first answer but, after finding out that the dates didn't match up,
it's looking a bit more tricky now.
Let me know if you end out checking the NARA records for Harald A.
Hansen and O. Hansen, as well as the records for 1900 & 1910.
Thanks again,
Dantana
|
Clarification of Answer by
omnivorous-ga
on
18 Feb 2003 06:38 PST
Dantana --
I'll be making the check today (the NARA offices are about 45 minutes
away) and will let you know what we find.
Best regards,
Omnivorous-GA
|
Clarification of Answer by
omnivorous-ga
on
18 Feb 2003 15:10 PST
Dantana --
The 1910 Census index has been transcribed and indexed very well. It
lists about 12 Harold (American spelling) Hansens in Cook County,
Illinois that were born in Norway; about 2 H. Hansens; and about 6
Oscar Hansens. Only two even come close to your relative's age but
other data doesn't match.
Here goes:
This 1910 Census was taken April, 26, 1910 (ED 1124, family #87)
Harold, 43, 3236 Oak Place, profession: decorator; immigrated 1884
Lilky T., 43, immigrated 1884
Anna T., 22, adopted daughter; born Norway; immigrated 1903
There is also an Oscar H., 46; married to Anna, 42 (both born in
Norway). However, they have three children ages 15-20 who were all
born in Illinois.
Best regards,
Omnivorous-GA
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
dantana-ga
on
20 Feb 2003 04:58 PST
Omnivorous -
Again, thank you so much for your effort. I'm guessing there aren't
too many other avenues to go down here - let me know if there are any
realistic possibilities.
If this is the end of the road, then I'll rate your answer - and I'll
rate it very favorably, if not for result than at the very least for
the comprehensive attempt on your part. And, as I said, I'll be
willing to contribute a little extra monetarily as well...
Best regards,
Dantana
|
Clarification of Answer by
omnivorous-ga
on
20 Feb 2003 07:35 PST
Dantana --
This appears to be as far as I can suggest taking the Hansen search.
The 1910 Soundex index is VERY clear and very well organized, having
been transcribed (rather than being in the original census-taker's
pen-and-ink); if you get a chance someday to use www.ancestry.com you
can repeat the same searches.
In checking 1910, I looked for every Hansen in Cook County, IL, a
large county that goes well beyond Chicago (including Evanston, Oak
Park and numerous other
suburbs that would have existed at that time). I listed every H.,
Harold, Harry or Oscar born in Norway that was within 2 years of being
44. As you see, the results were not quite the match we originally
thought we had when I had the younger age.
I've done a lot of genealogy research (and just got a microfilm of
1862 San Francisco newspapers to continue some research on a relative
of mine) and believed that the Census search would be the most-likely
to produce results, especially since we knew the likely location.
Norwegian migration to Minnesota and Seattle was also substantial but
I'd just be fishing if I suggested looking there.
One other note: if you should use Ancestry.com, please repeat the
Hytten search too. For me that database has proven more reliable than
AncestryPlus.
Best regards,
Omnivorous-GA
|
