Hello Cynthia Diane,
You’re confronted with a very tough decision. It looks like you’ve
already done a lot of research and you’re hoping that a Google
Researcher could come up with something more positive. I found a lot
of information about the issues involved in making your decision on
whether or not going to medical school at this stage of your life is
possible and worth the time and effort. I will highlight my findings
taking into account the information you shared about yourself.
--------------------------------------------
SUMMARY OF YOUR EDUCATION AND QUALIFICATIONS
--------------------------------------------
I’ve distilled the information you gave about yourself into the
following summary:
Age 46
BS Computer Science from Golden Gate University, 2002
Magna cum Laude, GPA ?
Goal: MD in Family Practice or Internal Medicine
Target Schools: 1) UCSF Medical School or Stanford Medical School, 2)
US medical school, 3) foreign medical school.
Need post-baccalaureate pre-med science courses – approximately 2
years.
Expect to earn 3.0 GPA for pre-med science course work.
MCAT expected score top range.
No related extracurricular activities.
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ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE FOR NON-TRADITIONAL SUCCESS
----------------------------------------------
My search of the Web revealed one stellar example of someone who is in
your age bracket who succeeded in medical school. I’m giving you the
information about him for inspiration and to help you with getting an
idea of what it takes to be taken seriously as a non-traditional
student.
http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/101199/new_doctor.html
Dr. Robert Lopatin speaks to Ramona Cosme at Montefiore Medical Center
in the Bronx borough of New York, Tuesday, Sept. 21, 1999. At 55,
Lopatin, fresh out of medical school, is one of the oldest first-year
residents in the country.
http://www.aarp.org/mmaturity/jan_feb00/charge.html
As it was, he excelled in the three-year program. But Lopatin wasn’t
just another student: His age evoked strong reactions. … He felt that
some schools interviewed him only because they had to, due to his high
grades and admission-test scores.
http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/1999/11/23/p20s1.htm
LIFELONG LEARNING
How do you fare if you're not 19?
Seniors heading back to school find it harder to get in and fit in the
second time around.
Special to The Christian Science Monitor, 11/23/99
Engineering, accounting, and medicine are other fields seemingly
stacked against seniors. Robert Lopatin is drawing attention for
having graduated from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New
York this spring at the age of 55. But when he had first approached a
premed program, an adviser told him, "You're not going to get into
medical school."
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CONFRONTING THE REALITIES OF AGE
--------------------------------
I’ve collected some statistics to give you a realistic view of how
many people are accepted into medical school at your age. I’m afraid
the numbers are dismal. The survey’s I’ve been able to locate show
that you would be in the 99th percentile in any school. You will have
to be extremely assertive and convincing in your presentation
regarding your motivation to become a physician. Because of
anti-discrimination laws no one will ever admit that your age is a
factor in evaluating your qualifications, but there will always be an
underlying context. In addition to the statistics I’m also including
some articles and advice columns. I’m also including a couple of
articles about age discrimination charges against medical institutions
by doctors who feel they’ve been bypassed in favor of younger
colleagues. Some of these doctors are close in age to the age you will
be when you’re likely to graduate. I don’t want to discourage you, but
I think it’s important to understand the realities of the profession
you’re moving into.
http://www.aamc.org/sitemap/start.htm
Association of American Medical Colleges
****** Offers a wide variety of resources including statistical
reports. See below.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/start.htm
FACTS - Applicants, Matriculants and Graduates
The tables listed below are the most comprehensive sources of
information regarding medical school applicants, matriculants, and
graduates available to the public free of charge.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg112001a.htm
Applicant Age at Anticipated Matriculation, 1992-2001
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg122001a.htm
Matriculant Age at Anticipated Matriculation, 1992-2001
NonTraditional Medical Student
Getting into Medical School: A Guide for Nontraditional Students
Applying to medical school is a highly competitive process, where the
number of seats in U.S. schools far outstrips demand. The odds are
even higher for nontraditional students. In 1998-1999, the overall
acceptance rate was about 42%. For applicants age 32 and older, the
acceptance rate was 26%. While this may partly be due to age
discrimination, a major reason for the lower acceptance rate is that
older students tend to have lower grades and MCAT scores if they have
been out of school for a number of years.
Estimating Your Chances
To be in a realistic position, you should be in line with the average
MCAT scores and GPA for other matriculants, which is about a 3.55 GPA
and 30 MCAT. Note that less than 5% of students who enter medical
school have a GPA of 3.0 or less, and most of them probably have
extenuating circumstances which offset their low GPA. For example, a
low GPA may be offset by a high MCAT score. If your grades are below
the averages listed here, you may want to consider ways to improve
your standing, which I discuss under the Second Chance link.
http://www.nyu.edu/cas/prehealth/gaold.htm
General advice to older students
The probability of "older" students gaining acceptance into medical
school is significantly less that of their younger counterparts.
***** This article has a fairly negative attitude toward “older”
medical school applicants and gives a lot of pointers for older
students who want to try anyway.
http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/july01/physiciansupply.htm
Addressing the Question of Physician Supply in America
http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/july01/start.htm
Mature Faculty Bring Benefit of Experience to Medical Schools
Interesting chart on the aging of medical school faculty.
http://www.ama-assn.org/sci-pubs/amnews/pick_00/mksc0124.htm
Kaiser drops bonus after age complaint
Kaiser Permanente says it gave bonuses to doctors with fewer than 15
years experience because of sharper skills, but a doctor says it was
age discrimination.
http://www.epmonthly.com/EPEffJobSearch.asp?showarchive=1&artname=174
Age Discrimination in EM: Part I of II
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EXAMINING GRADES, TEST SCORES, OTHER QUALIFICATIONS
---------------------------------------------------
After dealing with the age issues, you must take a close look at the
importance of the qualification requirements, both objective and
subjective. Your GPA for your undergraduate degree is high. You
believe that your grades for the pre-med science courses you will have
to take will be around 3.0 on a 4 point scale. You assume that you
will do very well on the MCAT. Medical schools emphasize the
importance of related extracurricular activity and you say that you
don’t have anything that would qualify or impress at this point.
I’ve collected some information about the importance of these
qualification requirements and how your record would stack up against
the competition. I’ve also included some links and articles that help
you think through how to best present yourself when you fill out your
applications. Everything I’ve found seems to say that you would have
to have a stellar GPA and MCAT along with exceptionally persuasive
extracurricular activities to be a strong contender to overcome the
age issue.
http://www.premed411.com/PMZ/enter22.html
The Premed Zone
The average age of all applicants is 25 yrs old, and the average age
of
applicants accepted is between 24 and 25 yrs old. The percentage
accepted is
greatest for the 21-23 yrs old group at 46%, 36% for 24-27 yrs old,
and
11.2% for 28-31 yrs old.
The decline in acceptance with age is, I believe, largely due to
differences
in GPA and MCAT scores, rather than due to age discrimination.
Right now about 40% of all applicants are getting accepted. The
competition
is tough, but if you can get a 3.6 GPA or better in premedical science
courses, and do well on the MCAT, then you will have a good shot at
admission--your age should not even be a consideration.
http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~mikeg/medsec.html
The MCAT
One thing that may help balance out a low GPA is getting a higher than
average score on the MCAT. There is a catch, though. Remember that the
MCAT is based on General Biology, General Chemistry, Organic
Chemistry, and Physics. So if you didn't ace these courses, you most
likely will do poorly on the MCAT.
http://www.medicalschooladmission.com/ucsf/
UCSF School of Medicine
Applicants accepted: 5.0%
Average MCAT: 11.4
Average GPA (4.0 scale): 3.71
http://www.medicalschooladmission.com/stanford/
Stanford University School of Medicine
Applicants accepted: 3.3%
Average MCAT: 11.1
Average GPA (4.0 scale): 3.70
--------------------------------------------
CONSIDERATIONS FOR CHOOSING A MEDICAL SCHOOL
--------------------------------------------
In this section I’ve included some links for choosing and evaluating
medical schools, both foreign and domestic. I think you might be
familiar with some of these already. Although you asked for advice and
recommendations on some that would meet your needs I haven’t picked
any for you. These sites include so many search options that I think
it will be much more productive for you to do your own searches.
Instead, I’m including some links that will help you develop criteria
for yourself for how to choose and evaluate schools you might want to
attend.
http://www.aamc.org/students/considering/postbac/start.htm
Postbaccalaureate Premedical Programs
Many persons decide to pursue a career in medicine after earning a
Bachelor's degree. Frequently they must complete additional course
work in the sciences before applying to medical school.
http://www.sunysb.edu/healthed/foreign.html
FOREIGN MEDICAL SCHOOLS:LINKS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THEM, A LIST OF A FEW
STRONG ONES, AND SOME GOVERNMENT PUBLICATIONS
***** This is a very good collection of links for exploring the issues
around attending a foreign medical school.
http://www.aaimg.com/misst.html
The American Association of International Medical Graduates, hereafter
referred to as AAIMG, was founded in 1992 as a non-profit organization
to promote acceptance of United States citizen international medical
graduates into mainstream American medical practice.
http://www.ecfmg.org/
Through its program of certification, the Educational Commission for
Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) assesses the readiness of
international medical graduates to enter residency or fellowship
programs in the United States that are accredited by the Accreditation
Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME).
--------------------------------------
RESOURCES FOR NON-TRADITIONAL STUDENTS
--------------------------------------
In this section I’ve collected some links that are dedicated to the
needs of non-traditional students. I’m including some additional
consultants so you can compare what Judy Colwell offers to others who
provide similar services.
http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~mikeg/medschool.html
By Mike Grasso
The purpose of this web site is to discuss how to get into medical
school as an older, nontraditional student.
http://www.premed411.com/home.html
"THE PREMED ZONE" is Richard Hochstim's trademark for his premedical
information service site on the internet.
http://www.traditionaldegrees.com/
Traditional Degrees for Nontraditional Students by Carole Fungaroli
Sargent, Ph.D., published in March, 2000 by Farrar, Straus & Giroux.
http://www.nontrad.org/
National NonTraditional Students Association
http://www.medicalschooladmission.com/med-school-admissions.html
Medical School Admissions Consulting
http://www.princetonreview.com/medical/apply/articles/process/nontradApplication.asp
Application Tips for Nontraditional Applicants
http://www.lewisassoc.com/lewis1.htm
Lewis Associates
Medical Strategies – Counseling and Placement Advising
***** See section on Non-Traditional Students
http://www.oldpremeds.net/
National Society for Non-Traditional Pre-Medical and Medical Students,
Inc.
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CONCLUSION
----------
Cynthia, I hope that the information I’ve collected will give you a
more comprehensive overview of the issues you’re facing in trying to
decide what to do about medical school. Based on my research, my
conclusion is that if you’re very persistent, very dedicated and
focused you should be able to reach your goal of practicing medicine.
But getting into a medical school will not be easy. The odds are very
heavily against you. I suggest that you review these materials and
then discuss your options with a trusted advisor. Be sure to include
your spouse, significant other, family, friends and other support
systems in your consideration of your decision. Get input from those
you trust and strategize on how to proceed.
I hope that this research meets your needs. Please be sure to ask for
clarification on anything that needs further explanation.
I wish you clarity for your choice and great success in whatever you
decide to do.
czh
SEARCH STRATEGY
"age discrimination" "medical school"
admissions "medical school" age
admissions "medical school" non-traditional |
Clarification of Answer by
czh-ga
on
11 Feb 2003 23:11 PST
Hi Cynthia,
I’m glad you found the research helpful. Here is some additional
information on your two follow-up questions. Yes, the quote regarding
oversupply of physicians is correct. I’ve included several links below
to help you get a handle on this. Your question about volunteer work
is a bit easier to answer. I believe medical schools are looking for
demonstrations of interest and dedication to the medical field as well
as maturity and ability to fit into a work situation. These
requirements are much easier for the non-traditional student who has
years of work experience under their belt than a student who has only
an academic background with associated extracurricular and volunteer
activities. I’ve included a few links to address these issues as well.
I think the comment from pocoloco-ga is also very relevant. You didn’t
say much about your motivation for wanting to become a doctor at this
point in life. Depending on your goals, there may be other medical
professions that would be suitable.
I wish you well.
czh
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PHYSICIAN WORKFORCE PLANNING
----------------------------
http://www.futurehealth.ucsf.edu/press_releases/pewgme.htm
PEW COMMISSION URGES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO MAKE MAJOR MEDICARE POLICY
CHANGES TO CURB CONTINUED PHYSICIAN GROWTH
Washington, DC, October 23, 1998 - Although the federal government has
taken steps to discourage medical schools from continuing to produce
an oversupply of physicians, a panel of experts led by former Senator
George Mitchell, contend that far more needs to be done.
http://www.aamc.org/meded/edres/workforc/pewrespo.htm
Medical Education and the Future Physician Workforce
Contrasting Positions on the Physician Workforce
The commission's recommendation that a number of U.S. medical schools
be closed derives from its conclusion that the country is facing a
serious oversupply of physicians and that the rate of supply (new
physicians entering the workforce) must be severely constrained. The
AAMC also believes that the country may well be on the verge of a
serious oversupply of physicians and, like the commission, bases its
view largely on the research of Weiner and his coworkers. However,
unlike the commission, the AAMC does not believe that the results of
Weiner's work (or the results of the work of others who have studied
the issue) allow a firm conclusion to be reached about the actual
magnitude of physician oversupply in the future (i.e., the imbalance
between the number of physicians available and the need for physicians
at some point in time). The potential magnitude of future physician
oversupply is inherently uncertain because all of the assumptions that
underlie projections of the future need for physicians are subject to
question.
http://www.nap.edu/books/0309054311/html/index.html
The Nation's Physician Workforce: Options for Balancing Supply and
Requirements (1996)
Entire 100+ page book is available online at this site.
http://www.aiha.com/english/pubs/tashkent/vanselow.cfm
NIS/US Health Workforce Planning 2000
III. Health Workforce Planning in the United States
Physician Workforce Planning In the United States
***** This is a report that reviews the statistics on the physician
labor force and argues that there is an oversupply.
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VOLUNTEER EXPERIENCE
--------------------
http://www.med.wisc.edu/Education/Programs/MD/Admissions/AdmissionsFAQ.asp
11. How important is volunteer experience and what types are most
appropriate for admission?
Exposure to clinical medicine before making the decision to apply to
medical school is very important. Volunteering in a clinical/hospital
setting is ideal. However, the admissions committee recognizes that
many students must work while attending college, or choose to be
heavily involved in extracurricular activities. These things are
considered when evaluating the extent of an applicant’s volunteer
activities.
http://www.sfu.ca/~premed/faq.html
Do I have to volunteer in a hospital to get into Med School?
A: No, there are no specific guidelines for volunteer experience.
There have been cases of students with exceptionally high GPA's (ie:
>4.0) that have had very little or no volunteer experience. Keep in
mind that volunteering can help to give you that extra edge which you
may need.
http://www.medprodigies.com/about%20medschool.htm
5. What extracurricular activities do medical schools look for?
Behind an applicant's grade point average and MCAT scores, probably
the next most important element to medical schools is volunteer
experience. This may include volunteer work in a hospital, research
work in a lab under a supervising professor, or any other work
experience that deals directly with the medical professions.
The reason for volunteer experience is twofold. First, volunteering or
participating in research shows interest in the health and sciences
field. Certainly, medical schools are looking for students who embody
great enthusiasm and passion for the medical occupation. Working in a
hospital is a very good way of articulating one's interest and
dedication to his/her aspirations of becoming a physician.
Second, volunteer experience shows the admissions committee that the
applicant is somewhat knowledgeable of the work environment involved
for doctors, and thus has an understanding of what the job entails.
Year after year, academically qualified applicants are routinely
declined admission into medical school due solely to lack of volunteer
experience. A wise applicant would not be weak in this highly critical
area.
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