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Q: Brain/philosophy: Why high freq sounds "high", a wine flavor "dark"? ( No Answer,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Brain/philosophy: Why high freq sounds "high", a wine flavor "dark"?
Category: Science > Biology
Asked by: barma-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 13 Feb 2003 04:42 PST
Expires: 15 Mar 2003 04:42 PST
Question ID: 160835
I am interested to find out if there is a branch of philosophy, or of
brain research that seeks to understand or explain why it is common in
language to use metaphors from completely different fields in a way
that feels completely natural, without a need to explain.

examples:

 - a musical pitch which cycles many times/sec is called 'high'
 - we might call the flavor of a wine 'dark' when it has certain
characteristics (none of which have to do with its color)
 - sound with a lot of treble in it is 'bright'
 - a happy person is 'up'; a sad one is 'down' 

in some cases, as in the last, there is some sense: a sad person might
spend all day lying 'down' in a bed, e.g., but there are quite a few
cases where it seems unrelated on a logical level.  and it doesn't
seem to be simply convention, as i highly suspect these metaphors are
universal

in fact, would be interested to know from non-native english speakers
if i am correct, that these metaphors are understood without an
explanation needed.  if i am incorrect, i'd be very interested in
counterexamples

am also interested to elicit more examples of this type of thing from
readers

all for the low low price of $2

Clarification of Question by barma-ga on 13 Feb 2003 20:30 PST
sublime, i  guess i disagree with how obvious my examples are (though
admittedly there are better examples that at the moment have slipped
my mind).  i'm thinking about how i might try program a computer to
make these connections - at that point one cannot be fuzzy in one's
thinking.

let me try to clarify what i mean.   if you look at what you wrote,
you are equating high with bright with up and low with dark with down,
with no explanation.  for example, if the definition of high is "being
more than x meters off the ground", what does that have to do with how
many amperes of brightness something gives off.  what's the formula? 
(i guess i'm suggesting there is none)

btw - sorry, 'vibe'  doesn't quite cut it with me :)

let me know what you think
Answer  
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Comments  
Subject: Re: Brain/philosophy: Why high freq sounds "high", a wine flavor "dark"?
From: sublime1-ga on 13 Feb 2003 18:40 PST
 
Most of your examples seem obvious to me. Perhaps others will have
a different perspective. It's all about vibration, or 'vibes'.

A 'high' note is a sound vibrating at a 'higher' frequency.
A 'bright' note is using a mixed metaphor. It is also a high
note, but described in terms of a higher intensity of light.
'Up' and 'down' also refer to the vibes people are putting
off. People do radiate measurable bio-magnetic energy, which
can also be higher and lower in frequency; brighter and darker
in intensity.
Subject: Re: Brain/philosophy: Why high freq sounds "high", a wine flavor "dark"?
From: apteryx-ga on 15 Feb 2003 14:39 PST
 
There's a book on this topic called "Metaphors We Live By," by George
Lakoff and Mark Johnson
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0226468011/qid=1045347649/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/102-7144642-8697729?v=glance&s=books#product-details).
 It addresses exactly the idea you are asking about.  I bought the
book because I am a big fan of metaphor and a deep respecter of its
central role in our language.  Metaphor is not just something
decorative and superfluous, just a peripheral poetic device, as
typically represented by English teachers.  I abandoned the book,
though, because it seemed to me that it was about 50% nonsense,
confusing straight comparisons and simple alternative literal meanings
with metaphor, and giving some very idiosyncratic interpretations to
things, even though the fundamental concept about uses such as you
described is very powerful, together with the insight about how it
feeds into our thinking process in both directions.  If I were going
to pursue this subject, I might go back and look at the bibliography
(if any) of that work.

More illuminating on this topic was a book by Marshall McLuhan, edited
by his son Eric LcLuhan, but right now I can't remember which one.  My
interest is more than casual but less than scholarly, so I am afraid I
don't have the card catalogue in my head.

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