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Q: Google listings - banned LinksToYou - How to fix, how to correctly build traffic ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Google listings - banned LinksToYou - How to fix, how to correctly build traffic
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: xramp-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 19 Feb 2003 20:27 PST
Expires: 21 Mar 2003 20:27 PST
Question ID: 163748
Argh!  I have spent hours optimizing my pages and adding great content
relevant to my site and I have submitted my site to google a couple of
times because it hasn't shown up.  I have recently looked at my logs
and I have seen the Googlebot show up there, but still, my site
doesn't show up on Google...

After some searching of trying to find answers I THINK I have found
the reason.  In my attempts to build traffic, I joined "LinksToYou"
thinking that this was a good thing.

Now I learn that I am automatically banned from Google if I use
them!!!  That totally defeated the purpose!  I have a young company
that is trying to get out there and compete with the big dogs and I
really wasn't trying to do something wrong, I was simply following the
advice (albeit bad advice) of "traffic building" sites out there.

How do I go about getting my domains: www.XRamp.com and
www.PortGate.com off the unbanned list?

I have completely taken off all of the "LinksToYou" stuff and I have
notifed them to remove me from their service.

Please let me know what I need to do to get unbanned.

The second question that I have is this: Our targeted marketing
campaign is an affiliate program that we run from our site whereby we
try to convince related sites to post banners and links to our site in
exchange for a commission on any sales they generate from their sites.
 Is THIS going to get me banned as well?

If not, how can I maximize the effectiveness of this campaign to build
link popularity?  I understand that if there is the same text or links
on lots of pages that they don't count as high.  Do I need to have
random link text?  Is this cheating?  I certainly don't want to be
considered a "spammer" or anything else - I am just trying to
legitimately build traffic to my site.

How do I do this the CORRECT way?

Thanks a bunch!
Scott Harris
Scott@XRamp.com
www.XRamp.com

P.S. Please don't forget to tell me what I need to do to get
unbanned!!!

Request for Question Clarification by robertskelton-ga on 20 Feb 2003 12:19 PST
When did you first submit your sites to Google?

Clarification of Question by xramp-ga on 20 Feb 2003 13:09 PST
I guess I first submitted the site to Google in early January.  At the
end of January I was able to type in my URL XRamp.com and it would
bring up the page.

Now it says: No listing for XRamp.com, however in my log files,
GoogleBot has visited a number of times, but has never traversed past
my home page (which incidentally was the page with the link to
"LinksToYou" on it).

I have a proper robots.txt file and proper metatags (I hope - I have
had my metatags analized by serveral different optimization
sites/utilities, and they all said they were fine).

Shouldn't GoogleBot go through my site to see what all is there?  I
can only assume that it is seeing the link to LinksToYou and it was
dumping me.  That would also explain why my URL no longer shows up in
Google, I think.

Clarification of Question by xramp-ga on 20 Feb 2003 14:41 PST
Robert,

I note on some of your other answers that you sign up for a number of
affiliate campaigns.  As part of your research will you please sign up
as an affiliate at www.XRamp.com and give me your feedback on the
system I have in place?

Thanks a bunch! (I hope you noticed that I increased the value of an
answer!)
Scott
Answer  
Subject: Re: Google listings - banned LinksToYou - How to fix, how to correctly build traffic
Answered By: robertskelton-ga on 20 Feb 2003 14:42 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi Scott,

I don't think you have anything to worry about, for two reasons:

- To the best of my knowledge, Google will initially list any site.
Down the track, some sites which break the Google rules get banned.
Because many sites which break the rules get away with it, it seems
that Google doesn't check every site, and it only checks every now and
then. I follow online discussions on this topic daily, and I have not
heard of a site being listed and then banned so quickly.

- The disappearance of your listing in search results is most likely
due to being noticed by Google's Freshbot. You normally have to wait
until longer than you have to show up in Google. A typical pattern is:

1. You submit your URL.

2. Google updates the main index at roughly the end of the month. Your
site does not appear.

3. Google updates the main index at roughly the end of the next month.
Your site appears.

I would expect a site submitted in early January to first appear at
the end of Feb.

This is what probably happened, and will happen:

1. You submit your URL.

2. Late January your site is found by the FreshBot. It appears in
search results for a day or two, then disappears. If the Freshbot
doesn't visit your site a day or two later, your listing reverts to
how it is in the main index. Because it is not yet in the main index,
your site no longer appears.

3. Google updates the main index at roughly the end of January. Your
site does not appear.

4. Google updates the main index at roughly the end of Feb. Your site
appears.


Freshbot  
--------  
  
When you submit your URL to Google, some time in the next month or so
the Googlebot will pay your site a visit and index most or all of it.
  
Google also has Freshbot - it looks for websites which typically have
constantly changing content, and re-indexes them every day or two. If
you see any Google search results with a date beside them, that is
when Freshbot last visited them. Sometimes Freshbot will
unintentionally find other sites...
  
It appears that xramp.com was found by the FreshBot. One of the most
common queries I receive here (and elsewhere) is why does my site
disappear, then reappear, then
disappear? The following comes from GoogleGuy, a Google search
engineer who often answers queries posted at WebMasterWorld:
  

GoogleGuy: Everflux and Fresh Crawls  
------------------------------------  
  
If your site is new, or hasn't shown up in google for long, it may
because our "fresh crawl" (which runs each day) was finding your site
instead of our main crawl (which runs about once a month). Our "fresh
crawl" is a newer feature, and we're still experimenting with which
pages to crawl, how deeply to crawl, etc. We even reserve the right to
(gasp!) not do a fresh crawl on some days because we're doing tests or
reviewing new code. Someone wrote in recently and said "my site got in
google three weeks ago, and you've dropped me four times!"  Nope, it's
just that we don't always crawl the same pages in our fresh crawl, and
we don't always crawl to the same depth. As we do a full crawl of the
web, we find most of the sites from our fresh crawl and put them in
our regular index. My advice on our fresh crawl is to view it as a
nice "bonus" on top of google's deep index. Users can always search
our full index, but sometimes we can serve up even fresher pages as an
extra nicety.
  
The rest of the discussion is at:  
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/6339.htm  
  
Basically, if your site is picked up by freshbot one day, but not the
next, the site's listing reverts to its normal listing. If your site
didn't previously have a regular listing, it disappears. Here are some
more opinions at WebMasterWorld:
  
Google also has what we call the fresh-bot, also nicknamed "minty". It
crawls much more frequently, but not as deeply. It is used to update
pages in the index which change often. After a freshbot crawl you site
may appear for a few days with an updated listing, called a "fresh
listing". However, if the freshbot does not return within a few more
days, your "fresh listing" will disappear, and your listing will
revert to whatever it was during the previous deep-crawl, meaning the
one at least one month ago. If you have never had a "previous" deep
crawl, then your site may disappear. If the fresh bot returns to your
site, your fresh listing may re-appear. Therefore, during the first 30
to 59 days of a site's life, it may drop in and out of Google's
results page.
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/6743.htm  
  
When we do a new fresh crawl, it currently replaces the last fresh
crawl. And again, we do experiments from time to time, so different
crawls may visit different pages. (GoogleGuy)
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/6339.htm  
  
My site is new and isn't in the Main Index yet, but was in for a day,
due to fresh bot crawl 3 days ago. freshbot came back this morning
(whew), grabbed some pages, but I'm nowhere to be found... The point
is that pages found by freshbot have an unsure life in Google's index.
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/5196-3-15.htm  


How to be re-included
---------------------

I'm quite sure your site will appear properly with the next Google
index update (typically at the end of the month). If it turns out I am
wrong, this is the official Google advice:

Your page was manually removed from our index, because it did not
conform with the quality standards necessary to assign accurate
PageRank. We will not comment on the individual reasons a page was
removed and we do not offer an exhaustive list of practices that can
cause removal. However, certain actions such as cloaking, writing text
that can be seen by search engines but not by users, or setting up
pages/links with the sole purpose of fooling search engines may result
in permanent removal from our index. If you think your site may fall
into this category, you might try 'cleaning up' the page and sending a
re-inclusion request to help@google.com. We do not make any guarantees
about if or when we will re-include your site.
://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html#B3
  

Affiliate Scheme
----------------

Affiliate schemes are not shady - they are a legitimate way to boost
business. Search engines have nothing against them, and by running one
you will not be penalised.

However - any link URL with a "?" or "cgi-bin" in it runs a high risk
of not being followed by search engine spiders. Google does follow
some, but at their discretion. You can be quite sure that they don't
want affiliate links to affect search results. Google say:

"We are able to index dynamically generated pages. However, because
our web crawler can easily overwhelm and crash sites serving dynamic
content, we limit the amount of dynamic pages we index. "
://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html#A1

In my opinion, the best way to increase link popularity is to use an
affiliate scheme which keeps track of things by using cookies or
referring URL. That way every link to your site will look the same.
Search engine spiders ignore cookies.

You are right, if you have 500 sites linking to yours, all with the
text "XRamp is the best site on the planet", it will look suspicious.
It's a good idea to say to affiliates - here's the link, use whatever
text you want. That way you get an appearance of genuine linking. If
you want to offer them a default, make it "XRamp" - it's normal to
link to a site using its name.

Here's some WebMasterWorld discussions on the affiliate / link
popularity topic:

Themes and Popularity - Please Help
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum5/527.htm

Gaining link popularity from incoming affiliate links?
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/4216.htm

Affiliate software and link popularity
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum12/274.htm


NOTE: WebMasterWorld requires a quick and easy, free registration. It
is by far the best place for your type of question, which doesn't have
definitive answers, but consensus of opinion and experience can help
greatly.


Search Strategy: searching WebMasterWorld for "freshbot"  


Best wishes,  
robertskelton-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by xramp-ga on 20 Feb 2003 14:47 PST
Robert, 
 
I note on some of your other answers that you sign up for a number of
affiliate campaigns.  As part of your research will you please sign up
as an affiliate at www.XRamp.com and give me your feedback on the
system I have in place?
 
Thanks a bunch! (I hope you noticed that I increased the value of an
answer!)
Scott


P.S. if this is not a legitimate request, let me know and it will not
affect the way I rate your answer.

Clarification of Answer by robertskelton-ga on 20 Feb 2003 15:14 PST
Trial sign-up
-------------

Good things:

- Nice range of banners, and they look great.
- Article content - excellent.
- The sign-up process went without a hitch.
- The Affiliate Home is linked to from your home page (many, many
sites fail to do this).
- 

Negatives:

- The link from this page to the Reseller Section didn't work for me,
it lacked the https://

http://www.xramp.com/contact.asp

- You need a support email address for affiliates, so they can ask you
questions like I list below.

- Why isn't there an affiliate agreement? Reading one is the first
thing I like to do. Legally, from my side of things, affiliate
agreements are a waste of time, because they usually leave the
affiliate with no rights anyway. But it is the norm to have an
agreement.

- International affiliates? This is a common problem. If you accept
international affiliates you need to have a country field in the
sign-up form, and change Zip Code to read Zip Code/Postcode, and
change State to read State/Province.

- How often are commissions sent? Is there a minimum payment? Do they
arrive by cheque only, or do you offer direct deposit or PayPal?
International affiliates often prefer Paypal.

I suggest that you create a FAQ page which answers the above
questions. If there is a reason for not having an affiliate agreement,
perhaps it is worth sharing with potential affiliates.

Despite the negatives I noted, if I lived in the USA (and it suited by
site's topic), I'd be signing up - your site has a very fresh, clean
and honest appearance.
xramp-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $20.00
Simply put: If you are lucky enough to get robertskelton-ga as your
researcher, you are in luck!

Great Answer, great follow through, this is my first time to visit
Google Answers and I am more than impressed...  I am hooked!

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