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Q: Evolution ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   7 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Evolution
Category: Science > Earth Sciences
Asked by: stevenclary-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 24 Feb 2003 12:12 PST
Expires: 26 Mar 2003 12:12 PST
Question ID: 166502
What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Evolution
Answered By: robertskelton-ga on 24 Feb 2003 14:10 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi there,

I hope you were looking for a serious answer! Most "answers" to be
found on the web rely on definitions of the words chicken and egg.
I've avoided any that talk about generalised reproductive eggs (like
what humans come from), and have used only those which are look at
chicken eggs, as we know them today.

For me, it comes down to how you define the first chicken. Is it:

1. The first chicken-type bird to be born from an egg?
2. The first chicken-type bird to lay an egg?
3. Chicken-type birds always laid eggs. When did they evolve into what
we call chickens?



Type 1 answer
-------------

Verdict: Egg

When you ask this question at Ask Jeeves, they respond with this web
page at How Stuff Works:
Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens.
The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a
new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the chicken's egg. So,
the egg must have come first.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question85.htm


Type 2 answer
-------------

Verdict: Chicken

I'll chip in, seeing as I am writing a book which touches on this
subject. I believe in rapid evolution, rather than the slow Darwin
model. I believe that cosmic radiation is the cause, and something
happens every 5 or 10 thousand years that mutates all living things on
Earth. Our DNA has the ability to leave "good mutations" alone, and
attempt to repair bad mutations.

Their was a number of pre-chicken chickens which were hit by a big
dose of cosmic radiation. Some of them mutated in such a way that they
would give birth to chickens that would lay eggs. This DNA mutation
was not repaired, because the DNA itself determined that eggs would be
a good idea to try.

The sons and daughters of the mutated chickens, that were born
normally, where the first egg-layers. The chicken as we know it today,
came before the egg.


Type 3 answer
-------------

Verdict: Egg

Apparently nature did not create the chicken. Chickens are probably
the result of selective breeding by humans. According to
encyclopedias, chickens are probably descended from a jungle bird in
south-west Asia. Jungle bird gradually transformed into chicken,
without a sharp dividing line. So, it is hard to say when one of the
birds was a chicken. Each mother (and father) would be essentially the
same species as the chick. But the chick would often be different,
with more chicken-like features which the breeders were selecting
(intentionally or accidentally). And if you can imagine a time when
the vague line between non-chicken and chicken was crossed, then there
was a first chicken. A not-quite-a-chicken gave birth to a chicken.
And that chicken started out as an egg.
http://www.jimloy.com/biology/chicken0.htm


The Biblical Answer
-------------------

Verdict: Chicken

If you believe in the Bible, the chicken came first. "And the evening
and the morning were the fourth day. And God said, ‘Let the waters
bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl
that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven’."
Genesis 1:19-20. Chickens are a type of fowl, so the Christian Bible
says that chickens came first.
http://www.aeb.org/kidsandfamily/answer_which_came_first.htm


The non-answer
--------------

Verdict: None

I like this one at MadSci quite a lot:

This question is really impossible to answer, as the evolution of the
chicken
was a gradual process that took place over time.  Over the course of
evolution,
small changes in the organism (the ancestor of the chicken) and the
organism's
reproductive mechanism (what would eventually be known as the egg)
occur to
result in what we see today as a chicken.  Thus, before the chicken
and the egg
there was something like a chicken and something like an egg, and
going back
further there was something a little less like a chicken and something
a little
less like an egg.  Therefore, it is really impossible to give a
straight answer
to this question.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/oct98/908213153.Ev.r.html

For all we know, the egg is still evolving... changing shape, the
shell getting thicker. In 1,000 years time, people might look back to
the eggs of today and say "What, you call that an egg, that's nothing
but a crusty membrane protecting an unborn chicken!"


Ova Prima
---------

I do not believe I have found an organization that is devoted to
finding a scientific answer to the chicken/egg question - they think
the egg was first, hence their name:
http://www.ovaprima.org/index.htm


Search Strategy
---------------

"chicken or the egg" using Google and Ask Jeeves.


Best wishes, 
robertskelton-ga
stevenclary-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $1.00
Excellent answers.  My familiy and I were very interested.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: scriptor-ga on 24 Feb 2003 12:17 PST
 
Yes.

Regards,
Scriptor
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: xarqi-ga on 24 Feb 2003 15:02 PST
 
The egg.
Reptiles were laying eggs long before birds came onto the scene. 
Indeed, there is fossil evidence that birds evolved from reptiles.
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: pinkfreud-ga on 24 Feb 2003 16:02 PST
 
I have heard that a lot of dissatisfied eggs call the sexual
dysfunction hotline complaining that the chicken came first. ;-)
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: ddelphi-ga on 24 Feb 2003 16:20 PST
 
Ever stop to think that a chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg?

- ddelphi
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: pugwashjw-ga on 01 Mar 2003 06:47 PST
 
IT HAS TO BE THE CHICKEN.  THE BIBLICAL ANSWER THAT GOD MADE [ OR
CONSTRUCTED ] ALL THINGS IS LOGICAL. ONCE HE HAD MADE EVERYTHING, THE
EARTH, THE STARS AND GALAXIES, MATTER [E.G. ROCKS ETC.] THEN ANIMALS
[E.G. BIRDS, FISH INSECTS ETC] LASTLY HE MADE MAN.. AND WOMAN. THE
BIBLE SETS IT OUT VERY SIMPLY. BUT I WOULD ASK ALL THE WELL MEANING
EVOLUTIONISTS OUT THERE A VERY HARD QUESTION. HOW DOES AN EYE EVOLVE.
IT MUST BE TOTALLY COMPLETE TO WORK. TAKE A WHOLE VEHICLE AND OMIT
JUST ONE JET IN THE CARBY AND HEY PRESTO. IT WILL NOT RUN. OF COURSE
IT TAKES FAITH TO BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT BLIND FAITH. ONE FINAL
POINT. THERE ARE MANY TYPES OF BIRD. FROM AN EMU TO A HUMMING BIRD.
THERE ARE MANY TYPES OF CAT. FROM THE LION TO THE HOUSE CAT. A LION
AND A TIGER CAN MATE AND PRODUCE OFFSPRING, BUT THAT OFFSPRING LOSES
THE ABILITY TO BREED. SOMETHING STOPS THE PROCESS. MY ONLY ANSWER TO
THAT IS GOD`S OVERALL PLAN. A BIRD WILL NEVER DEVELOP INTO A CAT, AS
THIS WOULD INVOLVE MULTIPLE BREEDING OF MANY TYPES, WHICH IS WHAT THE
EVOLUTIONISTS BELIEVE HAPPENED. THE BIBLE STATES IT AGAIN
SIMPLY...ACCORDING TO ITS TYPE.  Q/E/D/
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: xarqi-ga on 01 Mar 2003 13:49 PST
 
pugwashjw-ga
You ask a very interesting question, and I applaud your quest for
enlightenment.
If you were to raise this as a separate issue and offer suitable
remuneration, I'm sure someone would assist you.
Subject: Re: Evolution
From: flajason-ga on 04 Mar 2003 13:59 PST
 
Is this before or after he crossed the road?

(Just kidding)

The problem with this question is that there are a lot of undefined
parameters. Your answer can be different depending on which parameters
you accept, as robertskelton illustrated in his answer.

I interpret the question like this: As we define Chickens today, when
did the first Chicken appear? My answer then is the Chicken came first
as deducted from the "Type 2" answer given above.

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