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Q: Latin Translation to english ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   10 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Latin Translation to english
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: mtraven-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 28 Feb 2003 17:55 PST
Expires: 30 Mar 2003 17:55 PST
Question ID: 169029
Latin translation--Through Adversity and to the stars
Answer  
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 28 Feb 2003 18:24 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
The latin translation of "Through Adversity to the Stars" is "Per
Ardua Ad Astra."

This is the motto of the Royal Air Force of Great Britain:

The RAF's motto is Per ardua ad astra (through adversity to the stars)
- hence Adastral Park.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/14875.html

The same motto is also used by the Royal Canadian Air Force:

"Per ardua ad astra" or "through adversity to the stars" was adopted
by the RCAF when it was formed April 1, 1924 and it is displayed on
the Air Ops hat badge. It replaced the original "Sic itur ad astra" of
the CAF.

National Defence, Canada
http://www.airforce.forces.ca/traddocs/tradg_e.htm

The Air Forces of Australia and New Zealand also use this motto.

This question had some sentimental value to me, since my late
father-in-law was a member of the Royal Canadian Air Force. I have a
small gold ring that he gave me. On the ring are the words 'Per Ardua
Ad Astra." That is why I knew immediately how to translate the phrase.

Search terms used:

RAF
RCAF
"per ardua ad astra"
"through adversity to the stars"

If anything I've said is unclear or incomplete, or if any of the links
do not function, please request clarification before rating my answer;
I'll be glad to offer further assistance.

Best wishes,
pinkfreud
mtraven-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $1.00
I very much enjoyed the "after comments" also....Thank you for a great
answer............

Comments  
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: xarqi-ga on 28 Feb 2003 18:35 PST
 
"Per ASPERA, ad astra" is the more frequent translation, although
technically, it means "through harshness..."
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: hlabadie-ga on 28 Feb 2003 18:47 PST
 
Yes, per aspera ad astra is the usual translation. Indeed, it is the
motto on the seal of the state of Kansas, although rendered as Ad
Astra Per Aspera.

The Office of the Governor of Kansas: Governor Kathleen Sebelius
The Seal
http://www.ksgovernor.org/sealint.html

Ad Astra Per Aspera

"Ad astra per aspera -- to the stars through difficulties. This motto
refers not only to the pioneering spirit of the early settlers, but
also the difficult times Kansas went through before becoming a state.
The anti-slavery forces and slavery proponents waged battles in the
electoral process as well as on the battle field. Kansas earned the
nickname "Bloody Kansas" because of the war regarding slavery, much of
which was fought on Kansas' soil."

Given that Kansas as a state predates the formation of the Royal Air
Force, I would say that it is more correct.

hlabadie-ga
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: webadept-ga on 28 Feb 2003 20:37 PST
 
Of course "predating" is not really a reliable method of choosing
accuracy, and considering the question, I might choose the Royal Air
force over Kansas settlers just on literacy ratios.
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: hlabadie-ga on 28 Feb 2003 21:20 PST
 
Mutatis mutandis, precedence generally confers legitamacy of
preferment. Grammatical correctness leaves nothing to choose.
Therefore, the earlier version presumptively would be standard. The
other version would be properly termed an alternative.

I dare say that the authors of each were equally competent Latinists.
I also dare say that, relative to the general populations of their
respective countries, the ratios of Latinists to illiterates were
about equal.

hlabadie-ga
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: nanabelle-ga on 28 Feb 2003 21:54 PST
 
One wonders why hlabadie-ga is so intent upon "disproving" the
researcher's answer?

Whether or not the translation is correct has nothing at all to do
with whether Kansas predates the RAF.  Latin, which is sometimes
imprecise, predates them both.  Unless one is a Latin scholar, this
petty picking is pointless.
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: journalist-ga on 28 Feb 2003 21:56 PST
 
I'm in agreement with Pinkfreud's answer as well, Webadept.  Good job, Pink.
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: xarqi-ga on 28 Feb 2003 22:05 PST
 
Both versions are bona fide.  "Per ardua" is probably a marginally
closer translation; "per aspera", the more common one (IMHO).  It's
just a matter of personal taste I guess, and as we all know: De
gustibus non est disputandum. :-)
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: webadept-ga on 28 Feb 2003 22:25 PST
 
What I meant to say there is that for most of officers in the Royal
Air force, and much of the rest of the population of that branch,
Latin was a required course. Not saying anything against Charles
Robinson and his staff who lived the motto more than a few days of
their lives. Also, the more common usage, as apposed the  first or
earlier usage (especially if only one source is found for the
"earlier" usage), is generally the desired form. Since the time period
separating these two beginnings is a mere 63 years, I wouldn't think
this is a significant amount of time to warrant a "lost" knowledge of
grammatical insight.

Be all this as it may, the answer given is accurate, and the Kansas
version may be accurate as well.
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: tehuti-ga on 01 Mar 2003 05:44 PST
 
There is nothing much in it really going by the definitions, although
the primary meanings given for arduus (steep, towering, lofty) do give
the added image of battling upwards which is more harmonious with the
metaphor of reaching for the stars.  In my opinion, the concept of
precedence in a version of a translation is totally meaningless!

arduus -a -um [steep , towering, lofty]. Transf., [difficult to
undertake or reach]; n. as subst., [difficulty].

asper -era -erum [rough , uneven]; to the taste, [pungent, sour]; to
the hearing, [harsh, grating]; of weather, [rough, stormy]; of
character or circumstances, [rough, wild, harsh, difficult, severe].
N. as subst. [roughness, a rough place]. Adv. aspere, [roughly].

Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid University of Notre Dame
http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm
Subject: Re: Latin Translation to english
From: pinkfreud-ga on 01 Mar 2003 10:14 PST
 
mtraven,

Many thanks for the five "astra" and the tip!

~pinkfreud

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