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Subject:
Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: vernmcgeorge-ga List Price: $75.00 |
Posted:
10 Mar 2003 12:48 PST
Expires: 09 Apr 2003 13:48 PDT Question ID: 174292 |
I am writing a science fiction novel that includes several orbital missions and sub-orbital trajectory problems. It has a space-war component that requires me to figure out how to hit a number of targets on the ground from points in orbit. There is no need for anything approaching military precision. The Earth can be considered as a perfect sphere. All orbits and orbital sections can be computed as a two-body problem. Atmospheric effects can be ignored. Any acceleration due to use of spacecraft engines (boost) can be considered instantaneous. The only reason that I even want a solution is to get the science close enough so that I don't get a bunch of "you fool, your wrong, ha ha ha" letters from irate readers. The idea solution would be a computer program (preferably as a set of Java classes) that I could plug partial initial conditions and partial target conditions into. Complete conditions include latitude, longitude, altitude, velocity vector and available boost (to modify velocity vector). Partial conditions includes any subset of the above. Solution should compute or iterate to deviation at closest approach so that I can adjust initial conditions until an acceptably accurate solution is achieved. The types of problems I want to solve include: Reentry: Given initial latitude, longitude, altitude and velocity vector solve for point of impact (target altitude = radius of Earth). Targeted Reentry: Given target latitude, longitude and altitude (target altitude = radius of Earth) and initial latitude and longitude, compute initial altitude, velocity vector and available boost required to hit the target. Orbital Rendezvous: Given initial latitude, longitude, altitude and velocity vector, solve for rendezvous at target latitude, longitude, altitude and velocity vector. This could require chaining several solutions together to simulate several boosts as in boost to high apogee, boost for orbital plane change, boost to close approach, boost to matching orbit. Orbital Fly By: Like Orbital Rendezvous, but with no requirement to match orbits. Think of ship A getting close enough to shoot at ship B. Initial price is a fair amount for someone to find a solution that I have not found. I can re-price the question upward if someone want to tailor a solution to my specific needs. | |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: seizer-ga on 10 Mar 2003 13:35 PST |
Hello vernmcgeorge! I wonder if you've already come across NASA's wonderful collection of applets available at: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/ While they certainly don't begin to address all your requirements, perhaps you'll find them useful (or at least amusing)! Best of luck with the novel, --seizer-ga |
Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: mathtalk-ga on 11 Mar 2003 23:06 PST |
I'm unclear on how such computations so detailed as to be falsifiable would make a palatable appearance in science fiction. Heinlein's Moon is a Harsh Mistress employs a plot device of bombardment of Earth by projectiles launched from the Moon, but without tedious exactitude. A computer game/simulation of "space opera" on the other hand might well require the sort of simplified ("Atmospheric effects can be ignored.") computations you describe. I might have thought you were interested, for the writing perspective, in a helpful "back of the envelope" approach to apogee and syzygy calculations, but the "Java Class" and other detailed requirements suggest otherwise. regards, mathtalk |
Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: mathtalk-ga on 14 Mar 2003 11:28 PST |
Hi, vernmcgeorge: While apogee and perigee refer to the highest and lowest points of an orbit, and hence to the length of the major axis of an elliptic orbit for a simply 2-body system, the term syzygy properly refers to a linear alignment of three bodies, esp. the Earth, Sun and Moon. I was using it in a very loose sense, to suggest the problems of "aligning" the target, the missile, and the spaceship. regards, mathtalk |
Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: hedgie-ga on 17 Mar 2003 00:37 PST |
I will post few links here, including link which points to a program which can be used to solve listed scenarios. Program is described here: G.O.D. 0.81 Date: May 24th, 1995 License: GPL Size: 40.7K Rating: *** Information: G.O.D. stands for Gravitational Orbits Dynamics. It simulates interactions between n-bodies in 3D or 2D space, based on the Newton physic model. Download http://linux.tucows.com/home/preview/9227.html I am posting this as a comment, for possible benefit of the asker and use of my colleague arimathea-ga, because in my humble opinion, computer program, any program, is not an answer and google answers is not a good vehicle for finding an answer in this case. Author wants to write and not play with a program. Running such program, tweaking it, is a skilled job, it takes time to come to speed. In this case author needs somebody with more then technician level skills since what needs to be calculated, how it should be used and described is not well defined. Sci_Fi writer can create scenarios which differ from current practice, he can create UFOs which change directions instantly for any mass, as in ".. Any acceleration due to use of spacecraft engines (boost) can be considered instantaneous .." but he should be consistent. If he has created engines which can provide unusual thrust on negligeable amount of fuel, then he may need not any program, since path may be arbitrary (like path of a pedestrian, who may change direction instantly). Current programs arrive to a unique path because they impose conditions, usually 'limited engine thrust' and fuel-optimality. See e.g ... The Role of Fuel-Optimal Flight Plans in Maintaining Regular Operations. www.informs.org/Conf/NO95/TALKS/SE15.1.html or ... Vadali et al. 13 present a method to compute fuel- optimal multi-impulse maneuvers for formation flying using the chief-deputy concept. ... jungfrau.tamu.edu/~html/alfriend/alfriendpublications/ FormationFlying/OrbitEstablishment.pdf Minimum Fuel Optimal Control For A Scalar System A. Problem Statement The first-order, continuous-time system for this example and the minimum fuel ece.gmu.edu/~gbeale/ece_620/xmpl-620-min-fuel-01.pdf - Similar pages and other link which come for SEARCH TERM fuel optimal CONCLUSION This author requires (still In My Humble Opinion) a technical consultant, who will interact with him over time, and will eventually proofread the manuscript. Google Answers is not set up to deal with that, but GA researcher can find a suitable consultant or consultant broker, once question is formulated that way. Good luck with your book, Perhaps you can let us know when it is published, by asking some question about something like 'what to wear to book signing tour' hedgie |
Subject:
Sounds like your target market of readers isn't going to....
From: sergeantshultz-ga on 17 Mar 2003 19:51 PST |
make you rich. I like the one where Gene Simmons plays the assassin that has the gun that shoots the little missle bullets that attache to a heat/infrared fingerprint of the intended victim. I can imagine even boring old sites on a planet will have at minimum latitudinal and longitudinal "crosshairs" to extinguish them by... Sgt. Shultz, as usual, knows "Nuthing!" |
Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: chromedome-ga on 19 Mar 2003 03:40 PST |
Hi, Vern... I ran your question past a friend of mine, who does that sort of thing as a day job. The solution to it, he observed mildly, is "non-trivial." He says that if you want to go into it seriously, a comprehensive text is "An Intoduction to the Mathematics and Methods of Astrodynamics" by Dr. Richard Battin of MIT. He points out, however, that Dr. Battin teaches this material over a two-semester graduate course which is notoriously intense. If you just want to figure out a quick and dirty solution to your problem, he too recommends STK. Perhaps the publishers might bend a little to offer a (discounted) demo or student copy? Or have someone in their promotions department run the calculations for you in exchange for a credit in the book? Best of luck, -Chromedome |
Subject:
Science fiction?
From: sergeantshultz-ga on 28 Mar 2003 20:00 PST |
Have you considered using... THE FORCE? |
Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: vernmcgeorge-ga on 22 Apr 2003 15:49 PDT |
arimathea-ga, AGI has granted me a license to STK. Please post an answer so I can accept it and you can be paid. -- Vern |
Subject:
Re: Need tool to solve orbital and sub-orbital problems.
From: keruha-ga on 24 Nov 2003 18:56 PST |
vernmcgeorge-ga on 12 Mar 2003 14:07 PST wrote: >If I never get a solution, then I will fall back on the vague handwaving >that Heinlein may have used in TMisHM, although I suspect he did in fact >do his homework to come up with the transit times and impact energies that >he sprinkled throughout the book. As an ardent Heinlein fan I can tell you this: Heinlein always did his homework. He worked out those problems himself by hand, with his skillful wife checking his work. Any and all technical information in all Heinlein novels was up to date and as accurate as possible at the time it was written. He is a great example of how a sci-fi author should write, and I am quite content that contemporary writers like you follow in the same path. |
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