Sir William Wilde made a list of diseases known to the Irish from
early manuscripts. The list was possibly done in the 19th century and
it contains 75 diseases recognised by the old Irish physicians. Can
you find me a copy of this list?

I would also be interested in learning of any other available
information on ancient Celtic names for diseases, but my main focus is
the list of Sir William.

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Request for Question Clarification by juggler-ga on 13 Mar 2003 17:30 PST

I've located the following:

 "Account of a manuscript of Dr. Willoughby's written in 1690, on the
climate and diseases of Ireland"
by Wilde, W. R. (William Robert), 1815-1876. Dublin, 1857.

Is this what you want? If so, I can provide you with instructions on
how to obtain this document.

---

Clarification of Question by celtman-ga on 15 Mar 2003 13:37 PST

Thank you for your response. To be honest, I am not sure if this the
answer to my question. I think it is the same William Wilde, but it
sounds like it may only be part of his work on the subject as the list
of 75 diseases was collected from a number of manuscripts, not just
the work of Dr Willoughby.

I am not sure from your answer whether you have found the doccument in
an old journal or book or if it is available on the web. I suspect
that it is one of the first two options, which could cost me a bit of
time and money in trying to obtain a copy. This would not be a problem
if I was sure that it was the complete list. I have, in the past, not
been able to get answers to my email requests for doccuments from
organisations such as the Royal Irish Academy, who hold copies of a
lot of the old journals etc.

Nevertheless, I do appreciate your research as it may, at least, be
the answer to some of my question. I am not sure if it is possible (or
ethical) to do this, but may I award you $5 for a good part answer. I
imagine you would have to log off the question, I would then reduce
the price and then you can resubmit the complete answer. Let me know
what you think. Cheers, celtman.

Hello.

The document is at the National Library of Ireland [ http://www.nli.ie
].

"Account of a manuscript of Dr. Willoughby's written in 1690, on the
climate and diseases of Ireland.
by Wilde, W. R. (William Robert), 1815-1876.
Dublin, 1857.
Description:  [1 v.]

Copy/Holding information
Location: National Library Of Ireland 
Collection: P
Call No.:  P 1547  
Status:  Checked In "

Source:  National Library of Ireland Catalogue: Books and Periodicals
Catalogue
http://www.nli.ie:81/ipac20/ipac.jsp?profile=bk

The National Library of Ireland offers reprographic services. See
their web site for pricing and ordering information.
http://www.nli.ie/reproservice.htm


Also, I notice that, on the web page that Tehuti mentions below, the
material apparently "relies extensively upon History of Medicine in
Ireland (1951) by John Fleetwood." As such, it would seem possible
that Fleetwood's book contains more information about Wilde's list of
diseases. If you're interested in that book, used copies are available
from dealers such as those listed on abebooks.com:
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetails?bi=173887460

search strategy: national library of ireland, wilde, ireland, diseases

I hope this helps. Thanks, and best of luck with your research.

---

Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga on 25 Mar 2003 16:02 PST

Celtman,

I must admit that I'm a little confused by your comments. 

Previously, you seemed to instruct me to provide the information that
I had as answer. You wrote: " I am not sure if it is possible (or
ethical) to do this, but may I award you $5 for a good part answer."

You also seemed to indicate that you were familiar with the time and
expense of obtaining library documents. You wrote: " I suspect that it
is one of the first two options, which could cost me a bit of time and
money in trying to obtain a copy."

Did I misunderstand something?

It is very hard (and expensive)to get a hold of this doccument, or
even photocopies from it, from the advice given.

I've found these few names.  The web page is only available in the
Google cache

"According to Wilde the names given to diseases were often more
appropriate than their English or Latin equivalents.  The general
names of "illness" were galar (still in use) or teidhm. More modern
forms are tinneas and breoiteacht.
Tuberculosis was known as anfobhracht, or a skeleton. In the Brehon
Laws the consumptive patient was "one who has no juice or strength."
Murtagh O'Brian, a King of Munster, is supposed to have died of this
disease in the monastery of Lismore. The Christian influence is seen
in the phrase galar Poil or "St Paul's sickness." This was epilepsy,
so named from the belief that the saint was a victim. Sufferers were
described as being talmaidheach or "earthbound." It is recorded that
St. Eamin of Inis Cealtra died in A.D. 653 from teine-brurr, literally
fiery swelling, or erysipelas. Those who have seen the disease will
agree that the Irish name was an apt one. The more modern terms are
teine Dia (God's fire) or ruaidhe (redness).  Reference has already
been made to the occurrence of plague and the derivation of the place
name Tallaght. Several other words were in common use for "plague" as
well as tamh. Teidin was occasionally used to denote a severe illness
in an individual. Later pláig was borrowed from the Latin plaga. A
widespread epidemic was referred to as scuab or "sweeping.""
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:EgyWh_k41ccC:www.cassidyclan.org/irish_medicine.htm+%22William+Wilde%22+Celts+disease&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Thanks again for your comments tehuti. They are always appreciated. Cheers, celtman.

Dear Juggler

I am very familiar with the time and expense of geting inter-library
loans for books and photocopies of journal articles through public
libraries in my country.

The problem with the Wilde book is that it is held at a library in
Ireland and even if it includes the list of 75 diseases that I need,
it may be impossible to get a photocopy of it as libraries will only
copy up to 10% of a document due to international copyright laws. The
library concerned charges a hefty fee for photocopying, then there is
the cost of international airmail. I imagine that they would also
charge a fee to try and locate the information contained within the
book.

The Fleetwood book contains no more information on the diseases than
what tehuti provided (I obtained this book through inter-library loan
and checked).

While I appreciate your research, the end result is not as helpful as
I had hoped.

Cheers, celtman.

Celtman,

Thank you for your comments, and I'm sorry that the source cited was
not as helpful as you had hoped.

Given the age of this document, there is no possibility at all that
the document is subject to copyright protection. I'm sure that it
would be possible to obtain photocopies and/or photographic
reproductions of the entire document if you so desired and your budget
permitted.

Have a nice day,
juggler

juggler

Although the National Library of Ireland offers a reproductive
service, when I have encountered a book that was only available in a
'reading room' due to its rarity/old age, libraries have still refused
to copy more than 10% of the document. Sometimes they have even
refused to copy any material at all, allowing me to only take notes
from the book.

I am not sure why this is as the books are usually long past the
copyright date, but I have been told that it is done on principle and
also to protect the libraries investment in the book. If full copies
are made available then a cheap 'facimile' edition can published and
no money is generated for the library who supplied the original
material.

Facimilie books of old material are widely available, but I assume
this is because the original book has been lent out (and then cheaply
reproduced) or there is a licensing agrement with the library,
publisher or individual that holds the original book.

I hope this helps to explain some of the difficulties I encounter when
doing research.

celtman

Well, again I'm sorry that things didn't work out.

The fee here was minimal ($3.75 net to me).  I was just trying to
point you toward some information that I thought was related to your
search and that I thought you wanted, but it seems my attempt to help
was badly misguided.

Best regards,
juggler