I'd like to guarantee my Web site visitors that when I recommend a Web
site link (from my site), there's no popups or popunders.

Is there some sort of JavaScrtip I can use to kill popups from
hyperlinks?

For example, if I type:
http://www.instantsalesletters.com/?1313!11808

... it creates a popup soon after entry.

That annoys my subscribers at:
http://www.markusallen.org/cgi-bin/products.pl?A=12345&PC=11808

Any ideas?

---

Request for Question Clarification by lazerfx-ga on 25 May 2002 08:45 PDT

Would you need to link to the page, or would opening the page in a
frame so it works under your site be possible?

There is javascript you can use that would then prevent (In most
applications - caveats exist for some browsers) the popups from
occuring.

---

Request for Question Clarification by webadept-ga on 25 May 2002 09:03 PDT

Just a fast note in here.. Opening in a frame could lead to trouble
with the original site owner. I have a client who is in the middle of
a rather messy thing regarding this right now (he's an original owner,
someone is 'framing' him). So I don't believe a long term solution
would come from this.

webadept-ga

markusallen,

I'm sorry, but there is no possible way for a Javascript on your page
to control popups on another page.  I really don't think you could do
this with a frame.  Even if you did, it would not work well or as
webadept pointed out, it would upset the other site owner.

I suggest e-mailng the popup site's owner and telling him that you
visitors are complaining about his popup.  Ask him to remove the popup
and politely threaten to remove his hyperlink if he does not :-)

Thanks for using Google Answers!  There just isn't technically a way
to do what you're asking.  If you think about it though, would you
want other site owners to be able to control your website?

xemion-ga

P.S. I subscribed to your marketing newsletter, awaiting my great
tips!

---

Request for Answer Clarification by markusallen-ga on 25 May 2002 09:58 PDT

Impossible doesn't exist in my dictionary:>

My outgoing hyperlinked site owners would never complain about me
killling their popup because they'll do just fine with my traffic.

If they don't like it, they can asked to be removed from my site
(quite silly because lots of traffic with no popup/popunders is better
than 0 traffic with popups/popunders).

It's okay if the solution was worked 90% of the time.

Using frames would be okay... a small .cgi or line of JavaScript would
would be best

Having my Web visitors install software is NOT an option... way too
much of a hassle.

I'm looking to automate this... I'll be adding a ton of hyperlinks.

Any ideas?

Markus Allen
Publisher
$10,000 Marketing Tip of the Day
http://www.markusallen.org/cgi-bin/tips.subscribe.pl?PC=11808

P.S. Glad you subscribed... you're going to love Wednesday's FREE tip!

---

Clarification of Answer by xemion-ga on 25 May 2002 10:28 PDT

Ok...the problem is this...

His website is on his server.

Your website is on your server.

You can't control his server.

You can't stop his popups.

It's pretty much impossible, sorry.  It might even be illegal. 
Changing his content and all.

However, I will check more into the frames stuff.  I'm curious to what
can be done.  I will post my findings later today or tomorrow, but I
doubt I will be able to come up with a good solution.  Thanks.

xemion-ga

---

Clarification of Answer by xemion-ga on 25 May 2002 11:49 PDT

Ok, I have done further research.  I've concluded that this is just
plain impossible using Javascript.  I'm sorry.

IF, you wanted to do this for one particular page, if MIGHT be
possible to cancel the popups that page popped up.  That would depend
on how the page's webmaster popped the windows, etc..  What Javascript
he used and exactly how he did it.  That MIGHT be possible.

However, on a broad scale like you're asking for, it's impossible
using Javascript.

Javascript opens a window like so:  
window.open("popup.htm", "windowname", "width=300,height=300, etc.");

The "windowname" is a name that we use to "reference" the window with
using html.  Like we can launch a new document into that window using:
<a href="popup2.htm" TARGET="windowname">click here</a>

But, we can't close the window using the window name.

We can also reference a window using the following Javascript code:
NewWindow = window.open("window.htm", "window", "");
NewWindow.close();

However, most of the time you don't create windows like that in your
code unless you intend to reference them.


My Idea #1:
Theoretically, we could create a CGI script that would go through the
website you're linking to and look for "newwindow = window.open" type
statements.  We could then run a continuous loop through a page in a
frame that would check to see if "newwindow" was open and if it was,
it would close it.  That we could possibly do.  HOWEVER...doing that
would create huge problems.

First, when we say "newwindow.close()" and our script did not
originally open the window, the browser displays a little error saying
"this window is trying to close, will you let it?" (I'm paraphrasing).
 It then has a "yes" and a "no" button.

This is what your visitors would see.  They'd go to the page.  A
window would popup.  Then a box would popup asking them if they wanted
to close the window that just popped up.  Sounds annoying, huh?

Are you following me so far?  This is all sort of confusing.

Remember what I said before about using "newwindow = window.open()"? 
Normally you only use that code when you want to "reference" the
window.

So imagine now that the window has popped, the box has come up and the
user decided to close the window.  The Javascript on the original
website attempts to reference the window.  The window no longer
exists.  One of two things will happen depending on what the
Javascript is trying to do.

The window will either open again, the box will come up again and the
user will be extremely annoyed, again.  Or, an error message will come
up because the window no longer exists and the user will be extremely
annoyed, again.

So that idea (using CGI to find all the window reference and a
javascript loop to close them all) is extremely bad.


Idea #2:
Please read mork-ga's comment below.  This is my second idea.  My
problems with this below are below...

If you take out all the "open" statements you will create errors in
Javascript.  Errors are even more annoying than popups.

It's like the webmaster writes ten lines of code and you take out two
lines.  His code will now not work properly and will cause errors.

You could take out all of the javascript on the page, but that's a bad
idea because Javascript is extremely useful and it could very possibly
ruin the look of the website or the navigation.

Many websites create cookies when you visit them.  I don't want to go
into all the cookie technical details, but the cookies won't work
properly if you use this method.  This is a very big issue/problem,
just trust me on this.

You will also confuse your users.  Your link says
"www.websitewithpopups.com", but when they click on the link it
actually takes them to
"www.yoursite.com/takeoutpopups.cgi?url=www.websitewithpopups.com".

This is also very illegal. It's a copyright violation.  

There are other problems with Idea #2, but those are the basics.  In
theory, this sounds simple to do, but in reality it's very complicated
and does not work properly.

So, there really is no techincal way to keep those popups from popping
up.  Not without creating gazillions of errors or violating copyright
law.  I can assure you that most website owners would not be impressed
by you displaying copies of their website instead of linking to them.

I'm sorry.  If you don't understand anything I've said, please ask for
clarification.  I can understand how it would be very confusing since
you're not familiar with Javascript.  Thanks.

xemion-ga

---

Clarification of Answer by xemion-ga on 25 May 2002 11:59 PDT

Ok, I've come up with a 3rd idea.  I can tell you right now that I
won't recommend this idea or another idea that eliminates popups. 
It's just a bad idea technically.

The other problem is that popups are useful.  Some actually have a
purpose.  Eliminating all popups creates big problems.

I will research idea #3 further and get back to you.  I'm just
interested in making sure I've covered all the angles technically and
showing you that there is no real solution to your problem besides
e-mailing the webmaster.  Thanks.

xemion-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by markusallen-ga on 25 May 2002 19:03 PDT

Wow... I've inspired quite a debate.

I'm surprised how tough this is because there are many software popup
killers available.

As a marketer, I know:

1) Most people barely know how to turn on their computer, installing
popup killer software is an issue for most (not techie types
ovbiously).

2) When I e-mail Web site owners I'm looking to link swap with,
they're
not happy about creating a seperate page... it's a hassle.

3) I've been experimenting with a combination popunder plus popup to
get
my visitors subscribing to my marketing newsletter.  Check out these 
amazing results:

   Popup:  0.41%
Popunder: 14.74%

It's not surprising Web surfers hate popups.  But the 
results show they don't mind popunders.  For every 7 new 
subscribers I gain, 1 came from my popunder.  Just 
imagine... without the popunder, those extra subscribers 
would not have subscribed (but rather fled to another 
Web site). 

Since most Web site marketers don't test popunders vs. popups,
I'm concerned my visitors will think I'm exit popping them when 
it's really the referred URL who is entry popping them... a 
strategy that simply doesn't look good for me (or work
for the referred Web site owner).

I've seen sites that use a .cgi file to eliminate popups.
And like I said above, there are many software packages
that do the same.

Am I missing something here?

Warmly,
Markus Allen
Publisher
$10,000 Marketing Tip of the Day 
http://www.markusallen.org/cgi-bin/tips.subscribe.pl?12345&PC=11808

---

Clarification of Answer by xemion-ga on 25 May 2002 20:43 PDT

Markus,

I will try and reply to all of the posted comments.  I'm spending far
more time on this than is worth $10, but oh well :-)

Just fyi, popunder and popups are technically the same thing, just
with a little additional code added for the popunder.  Technically
it's done the same way.

In Reply To Your Clarification:  Popup-killer softwares work because
they are on the client ("visitors") computer.  You can't technically
do this because your website is not on their computer.  Your website
was the previous website they visited.  It's not longer there.  That
make sense?

Comment Reply #1:  Originally posted by damnshit-ga :-)  (interesting
name)  Removing all popups is a TERRIBLE solution.  Popups have very
useful purposes.  Just they are misused the majority of the time.  For
example of how surfing without popups or removing popups from websites
would be bad, visit: http://www.newsboys.com

Comment Reply #2: Originally posted by larre-ga and djscram-ga.  They
are both correct.  The offending webmaster would definitely be upset
and probably block access to your servers after he found out.  And
this would definitely be against the law and you could be sued in a
civil court easily (and you would definitely lose).

Comment Reply #3: Originally posted by br-ga.  He is also correct. 
He's basically refering to my Idea #1 (see my answer above).  However,
most popups are not popped up using a name like he said.  While his
suggestion technically possible, it would not work for the majority of
cases.  I would say that probably less than 10% of all popups popped
are named.  I'm just making that number up, but it's probably less
than that.

Additional Comment: Most commerical/advertising popups are popped up
using an "external" javascript.  This is javascript that's not stored
directly in the website.  This means you really don't have access to
it at all.  It's easy to get the external javascript code, but it's
not worth technically describing it to you.

My advice, is simply to e-mail the offending webmaster.  It is not
technically possible to get rid of the popups on his site without
doing one or more of the following:

1: Making the website owner angry.
2: Making the visitor angry.
3: Or getting sued.

Idea #3 did not work out.  Sorry.  Thanks and let me know if there's
anything else I can help you with on this matter!

xemion-ga

Another possible solution is to recommend your visitors to download an
anti-pop-up software before they click on links:
http://www.bysoft.se/sureshot/stopthepop/manual.html 
http://www.junglemouse.co.uk/pop/killers.htm 
http://software.xfx.net/utilities/popupkiller/index.html
http://www.panicware.com/product_dpps.html

And for my rich brothers and sisters who use the Mac:
http://www.webwasher.com/en/products/wwash/download_mac.htm

I've had a rather high success rate in providing popup free links by
writing the site owners who use the pop-ups, explaining the usefulness
of his or her content to my visitors, their reaction  when entering
the site, and politely asking for a link to an identical page without
popups. I've never made demands that the entire linked site be popup
free, only asked for a webmaster-to-webmaster courtesy regarding a
particular page. In another portion of the site, I explain the site
linking policy, and detail browsers and utilities that allow
individuals to refuse popups. I link this explanation on pages which
contain offsite links. A custom icon indicating popups or lack of them
next to the links is also useful as an additional measure. In fact,
I've seen several sites that use such icons as a type of Site Award,
praising the linked site for its courtesy. Honest flattery (not
necessarily an oxymoron) seems to be a successful approach.

~larre

Being moderatley experienced with PHP and perl, I'd say what he is
requesting is possible.

You could have you cgi request and parse their page, stripping it of
the offending javascript that is creating the popup and then
displaying the HTML to the user.

The catch, is, that the page would really be served by you!  The URL
that appears at the top of the users browser would remain as URL on
your server.

I think it would be very easy to do.  The advantage of using a
server-side script is that it is getting the content dynamically -
when changes are made to their page, your user will see them
immediatley also.

The alternative would be to copy the page to your server less the
offending javascript creating the popup.  The result is the same, only
you will have to update your mirrored page as he updates his or your
user may be shown an outdated page.

The author of the original page may or may not have an issue with that
strategy.  It would be best to ask their permission.  If you are an
excellent referred that they value they may not have an issue with it
at all.

So, based on what you've written, I'd say it IS possible, and scripts
likely exist that do it.  If not, it would be a short task to write
one.

Alternatively, you could get your visitors to download the opera
internet browser (http://www.opera.com) which has many advantages over
IE or Netscape such as allowing users to block pop-ups and operate
faster overall...
Hope it works out eventually :))

It's certainly possible to write a script to grab content, however,
it's just as easy (easier) for the website owner, and/or server
administrator to block access to all their content from the referring
domain. It's also classified as bandwidth theft, and most hosting
companies are willing to go to bat for their clients to assist in
prevention.

~L

Wait a minute,

If you follow the advice that strips the visited site, re-presenting
it as html from your server, you are OBVIOUSLY violating copyright
law.  The site owner is nesting his or her content within the ads as a
condition for people viewing it.  Individuals may choose pop-up
killers, but if you are killing the site's pop-ups for them, and then
presenting them that information, that's pretty clearly a violation.

Hello.

Although this solution might not work, in theory it should. Generally,
when a popup window is opened through JavaScript it is given a name. 
With this name, you can then execute some JavaScript to close the
window that has the specfic name.  To get the name of the window,
browse through the source and find the specfic code where the window
is opened, and it should have a name along with
it.  If not, I'm pretty sure you can't close it. Below is an example
that could work however you may need to modify it.

In your HTML, place the following:

<!-- your example link -->
<a href="javascript:owindow();">Link</a>

<script language="JavaScript">
 // I am not a good JavaScript coder however sometimes my code works.
(:
 function owindow() {
  newwin = window.open("http://www.sitewithbanner.com", "newwin");
//open the site that then spawns a banner

  setTimeout(5000, "thebannerwin.close();"); //close the banner after
5000ms
  
 }
</script>




That's about it, hope this may do you well.  Good luck.

Signing off,
br

Ok all you techies ;-) Let’s take a different approach ---

Markus, why don’t you (or for another $10 have someone here do it for
you) test drive a handful of popup killer freeware applications.
Select the best one then put a little button and promo on your website
inviting users to download the freeware. (Added value and all that.)

Getting back to the point brought up earlier about users hardly being
able to turn on their computers, I can tell you that most people don’t
even realize that ad-slapping software is available, so they never
think to search for it.  If they run across “accidentally” on your
site, and trust that you've already pre-screened it, they’d probably
appreciate it.

Think of this as my Free Marketing Tip of the Day! ;-) 

(nice site btw!) 

-K~

I use popup stopper from http://www.panicware.com/
One has to remember to hold down shift if one DOES want to popup -
that includes opening a new browser window. It is not perfect but does
quite a good job

The code that could be inserted in all foreign webpages by a cgi could
be

<script>
window.open=null;
</script>
If you do that right after the head tag, no popup would work on that
page (but would probably work inside frames/iframes on that site)

It could be considered ad-income blocking though

mplungjan-ga