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Q: Joan of Arc ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Joan of Arc
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: bettjay-ga
List Price: $100.00
Posted: 02 Apr 2003 17:25 PST
Expires: 02 May 2003 18:25 PDT
Question ID: 185170
Previous Question: Her negative and positive effects on the 100 years
war.....
How did her presence affect the French, the English, the soldiers, the
church? In what ways? Was it she that hastened the war's end? How? How
is she looked at in English history?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Joan of Arc
Answered By: revbrenda1st-ga on 02 Apr 2003 21:49 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi bettjay,

Joan of Arc, aka, la Pucelle, is (in my opinion) probably the most
tragic heroine in recorded history.

The Catholic Encyclopedia provides an excellent biography of her life
from birth to the stake, and beyond that to her canonization in 1920
by Pope Benedict XV.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08409c.htm

In some cases, one website answers more than one of your questions, so
I've not always included a particular URL for a quote if I've used it
already. Also, since some sites overlap, I've tried to place them
where I think they best suit your questions -- some of them could go
almost anywhere, though.

Please use the Clarify Answer button before rating this answer if
something is not clear and I'll get back to you ASAP.

Your questions:

>> How did her presence affect the French?

It would seen that one of the most positive effects this girl had was
to instill a sense of patriotism to France. People came to realize
that France was more than just land -- it was home to a nation of
French people and should, as such, be protected from foreigners and
guarded by its citizens.

According to Christopher Russell, the author of the paper below,
"Perhaps one of the most distinguished, and most often forgotten,
creative contributions of Joan of Arc was Joan's patriotism. Before
Joan, there was no sense of "France" or "English." Russell also makes
several references to the fact that being a woman had nothing to do
with Joan's achievements and successes.

The Creativity of Joan of Arc
http://www.therussells.net/papers/joan/

Professor Gerhard Rempel tells us that it  "... was her pure and vivid
patriotism That gave her power. She embodied the growing conception of
a single, united France, free under her king from foreign occupation
or interference. It was this mission that made her an important factor
in the political history of the time... It is in this time that we
find embedded the roots of one of the most powerful of the forces,
whether good or bad, that were to influence all modern history, the
sense of nationality, the response of peoples to the appeal of
patriotism, the united support by the whole people of a centralized
government."

Joan of Arc
http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/wc1/lectures/28joan.html

"France did not exist as a nation at that time. It was a collection of
principalities ruled by princes more powerful than the King. These
princes, English, Burgundian, and French, had been enmired, since
1337, in the Hundred Years War, in which they routinely used their
subjects as cannon fodder. By the 1420s, the French forces were
demoralized, and decimated to the point of conceding defeat to the
invading English forces, and their allies from the French royal house
of Burgundy."

Schiller Institute The Military Genius of Joan of Arc (JeanneD' ... 
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/educ/joan_ib.html

The actual causes of the on-again off-again Hundred Years' Wars are by
times confusing, but when Joan arrived upon the scene, the quarrel was
over who should be king of France. The French wouldn't accept any king
who was not ritually crowned at the traditional place, Rheims. Without
Joan, Charles VII would never have had a coronation.

You can read the background and particulars here:

Women In History: Joan of Arc
http://www.funsocialstudies.learninghaven.com/articles/joan_of_arc.htm

That didn't, however, prevent him from abandoning and denying her when
he realized the power that she held over the common man was not all
that beneficial to his monarchy.


>> How did her presence affect the English?

Another site which discusses the causes and progression of the Hundred
Years Wars provides good information toward the end of the article
which describes Joan's influence, even after her death, on the renewed
spirit of the French soldiers, who relentlessly fought for their
country. This spirit allowed them to take back French territory
occupied by the English and led to a French victory. I suppose this
could answer a few of your questions, i.e. soldiers, French, war's
end, etc.

History: Analysis of the Hundred Years War
http://www.cyberessays.com/History/72.htm

Also, "... once her reputation for bringing victory to the French
became established, her presence infected the heretofore invincible
English with doubt and fear."  And, "Two high-ranking English military
leaders, the Duke of Bedford and the Duke of Gloucester, felt
compelled to issue written orders disciplining English soldiers who
had deserted out of terror..."

Joan of Arc - A Military Appreciation
http://www.stjoan-center.com/military/stephenr.html


>> how did her presence affect the church?

Without Joan, France might have become a Protestant country like
England.

"If France had passed definitely under the rule of England, then in
the following century the powerful Huguenot party which subsequently
arose, would, backed by the might of the Tudor dynasty, have wrested
from the Church her "eldest daughter," and France thus have been lost
to the Faith."

"With the loss of France would have disappeared entirely, or rather
never have come into being at all, the religious orders and
congregations, the colleges, schools and numberless other
ecclesiastical foundations which in the past three centuries have so
powerfully extended, not only in France, but throughout the world, the
teaching and influence of the Church."

St. Joan of Arc
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/JOANARC.htm

"The treatment of Joan at the hands of her captors in the name of the
Church became a serious issue to be properly investigated and
corrected. The initial inquiry was turned into twenty-seven specific
articles that became the basis for future proceedings and the
interrogation of the witnesses."

SuperiorEssays.com - Joan of Arc
http://www.superioressays.com/Papers/History/JOAN_OF_ARC.PHP

>> Was it she that hastened the war's end?

"The fortunes of the Hundred Years’ War would tip back and forth for
years to come, but the decisive and irrevocable turning point was
Joan’s week of glory at Orléans."

Interestingly enough, the increased nationalism inspired by Joan
brought many social changes. "Because of... the growth of nationalism,
the weakening of the feudal system and the Church -- many historians
mark the end of the Middle Ages as 1453, the same year that the war
ended.

How did the Hundred Years' War Contribute to the End of the Middle
Ages?
http://k12.albemarle.org/MurrayHS/SSHome_Page/whIInet/hndrdsty.htm


>> how did her presence affect the soldiers?

"... she exhorted the soldiers to become faithful in making confession
and attending mass, she drove prostitutes from camp brandishing her
sword, and she fiercely scolded both common soldiers and great nobles
for their foul language. To their own amazement, hardened warriors of
all ranks meekly submitted to her will in these matters."

"Joan went far beyond being merely the tireless good conscience of the
army."

"... her ability to inspire the French soldiers stemmed from her
leading them into battle in the most literal sense possible. She was
in the front rank of every assault that she ordered to be launched."

Joan of Arc - A Military Appreciation
http://www.stjoan-center.com/military/stephenr.html

"Jeanne's use of cannon artillery revolutionized the science of
warfare and changed the fate of nations."

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/educ/joan_ib.html

As for how she is treated by English history? I think the Hundred
Years Wars are truly over. Nowhere in any of my research, regardless
of where the sites originate, did I find anything but respect for Joan
of Arc and admiration for her piety, military skills, dedication, and
determination.

Regards,
revbrenda1st


Search strategy:

Joan of Arc
://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Joan+of+Arc&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Hundred Years War Joan of Arc
://www.google.ca/search?q=Hundred+Years+War+Joan+of+Arc&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Joan of Arc battle technique
://www.google.ca/search?q=Joan+of+Arc+battle+technique&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Request for Answer Clarification by bettjay-ga on 03 Apr 2003 17:01 PST
Your answer was apppropriate, but would like more explanation of the
quotes. Thank you

Clarification of Answer by revbrenda1st-ga on 03 Apr 2003 18:46 PST
Hi bettjay,

I'm babysitting my oh-so-sick grandbaby right now (it's late) --  I'll
happily answer your clarifation when I get up in a few hours. A
question please: What is it about the quotes you need to know?

I do so want you to be satisfied.

Regards,
revbrenda1st

Request for Answer Clarification by bettjay-ga on 04 Apr 2003 08:56 PST
I'm 53 and back in college, working on a huge research paper, any
comments are appreciated.

Betty Jay

Clarification of Answer by revbrenda1st-ga on 04 Apr 2003 09:14 PST
Hi Betty,

I'm already working on this and hope to have an expansion of my
previous answer for you soon.

rev (also 53)    :)

Clarification of Answer by revbrenda1st-ga on 04 Apr 2003 12:03 PST
Hi bettjay,

I'll attempt to expand on the quotes I used. I'm going to use HYW
whenever I refer to the Hundred Years Wars, okay?

"Perhaps one of the most distinguished, and most often forgotten,
creative contributions of Joan of Arc was Joan's patriotism. Before
Joan, there was no sense of "France" or "English."

http://www.therussells.net/papers/joan/

Professor Gerhard Rempel tells us that it  "... was her pure and vivid
patriotism That gave her power. She embodied the growing conception of
a single, united France, free under her king from foreign occupation
or interference. It was this mission that made her an important factor
in the political history of the time... It is in this time that we
find embedded the roots of one of the most powerful of the forces,
whether good or bad, that were to influence all modern history, the
sense of nationality, the response of peoples to the appeal of
patriotism, the united support by the whole people of a centralized
government."
 
Joan of Arc 
http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/wc1/lectures/28joan.html 
 
"France did not exist as a nation at that time. It was a collection of
principalities ruled by princes more powerful than the King. These
princes, English, Burgundian, and French, had been enmired, since
1337, in the Hundred Years War, in which they routinely used their
subjects as cannon fodder. By the 1420s, the French forces were
demoralized, and decimated to the point of conceding defeat to the
invading English forces, and their allies from the French royal house
of Burgundy."
 
Schiller Institute The Military Genius of Joan of Arc (JeanneD' ...  
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/educ/joan_ib.html 


Clarification:
At the time of the HYW the feudal system was in place. The king gave
land grants to bishops and barons in exchange for their loyalty and an
oath to
supply an army in times of war. Those noblemen then parcelled out the
land to lesser noblemen, knights, etc. in exchange again for a sworn
oath of fealty.
At the bottom of the chain were the peasants, who actually did all the
work for very little compensation.

The feudal system relied on loyalty to a particular person, not to the
country. When the HYW began it was between kingdoms, not countries. As
a matter of fact, on French soil there were many nobles who allied
with the English king, rather than Charles VII -- most notably, the
Burgundians in the north. It was the Burgundians under John who
captured and sold Joan to the English, resulting in her trial and
execution.

I've read that even Charles was unsure that he was the rightful heir
to the throne, and it wasn't until Joan came along that few people
ever considered the fact that the English could have her own king and
France could have one, too. During her trial she remarked that God
favoured neither France nor England -- he just wanted the English to
stay in their own country.

Leading an army raised by Charles, -- (If you read the brief article
at
( http://www.onelook.com/?w=siege+of+orleans ), you'll see that her
army was sent by vassals from two regions , "... the Gascons soldiers
of la Hire and St-Severe and Bretons soldiers of Gilles de Ray") --
Joan was able to drive the English from many French regions, placing
them under Charles' control, thus increasing his holdings. It's been
said that although the HYW began with two kingdoms, it ended with two
countries.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another site which discusses the causes and progression of the Hundred
Years Wars provides good information toward the end of the article
which describes Joan's influence, even after her death, on the renewed
spirit of the French soldiers, who relentlessly fought for their
country. This spirit allowed them to take back French territory
occupied by the English and led to a French victory. I suppose this
could answer a few of your questions, i.e. soldiers, French, war's
end, etc.
 
History: Analysis of the Hundred Years War 
http://www.cyberessays.com/History/72.htm 
 
Also, "... once her reputation for bringing victory to the French
became established, her presence infected the heretofore invincible
English with doubt and fear."  And, "Two high-ranking English military
leaders, the Duke of Bedford and the Duke of Gloucester, felt
compelled to issue written orders disciplining English soldiers who
had deserted out of terror..."
 
Joan of Arc - A Military Appreciation 
http://www.stjoan-center.com/military/stephenr.html

Clarification:
In 1420 the Treaty of Troyes was signed. "This treaty allowed King
Henry V of England to become king of France when Charles VI, the
current French king, died."

Joan of Arc
http://www.galegroup.com/free_resources/whm/bio/joan_of_arc.htm

A few years later both these kings were dead, and when Charles VII
made his claim to the throne, the English violated the treaty and
advanced into central France, taking possession of all lands as they
went. South of Paris they laid siege to the Loire valley city of
Orleans, which was in a most strategic location. The fall of Orleans
was almost a guarantee that soon the southern regions of France would
be in English hands, making them a continental power.

Joan's victory at Orleans was the beginning of the end for the English
on mainland Europe.


In this four page account of Joan's life and military campaigns, the
author says, "... Joan would be far more dangerous to England after
her death, transforming a century-long clash of avaricious and
vacillating feuding lords into a holy war for national liberation."

And, "... the English were bestowing upon her a martyrdom that would
haunt them for the rest of their numbered days on French soil."

Joan of Arc - The Maid of Orleans
http://womenshistory.about.com/library/prm/blmaidoforleans1.htm?terms=the%2Bmaid%2Bof%2Borleans

"Almost alone, Joan of Arc had transfigured a losing French side into
one that not only won those aforementioned numerous victories, but
would continue to win until, by 1453, it had completely cleared even
normand and Aquitaine of English soldiers; only Calais on French soil
would be left in English hands."

Joan of Arc
http://www.100yearswar.co.uk/joanintro.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Without Joan, France might have become a Protestant country like
England did in the early sixteenth century.
 
"If France had passed definitely under the rule of England, then in
the following century the powerful Huguenot party which subsequently
arose, would, backed by the might of the Tudor dynasty, have wrested
from the Church her "eldest daughter," and France thus have been lost
to the Faith."
 
"With the loss of France would have disappeared entirely, or rather
never have come into being at all, the religious orders and
congregations, the colleges, schools and numberless other
ecclesiastical foundations which in the past three centuries have so
powerfully extended, not only in France, but throughout the world, the
teaching and influence of the Church."
 
St. Joan of Arc 
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/JOANARC.htm 
 
"The treatment of Joan at the hands of her captors in the name of the
Church became a serious issue to be properly investigated and
corrected. The initial inquiry was turned into twenty-seven specific
articles that became the basis for future proceedings and the
interrogation of the witnesses."
 
SuperiorEssays.com - Joan of Arc 
http://www.superioressays.com/Papers/History/JOAN_OF_ARC.PHP 

Clarication:
This isn't so much a clarification but a most excellent encyclopedic
article about feudalism. From it you'll see how the erosion of the
feudal system affected the Church. If you don't want to read the whole
thing, scroll to
"Church and Feudalism" (about 2/3 of the way down the page).

"Royal despotism followed the indignities of Anagni; the Church sank
under the weight of her feudal duties."  It would appear that the end
of feudalism was, in the broader sense, good for the church, although
less profitable for the individuals concerned.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Feudalism
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06058c.htm

See the final few paragraphs on this page:

Middle Ages Period (500-1500 CE)
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/midlages.htm 

--------------------------------------------

There are a few complete texts about Joan on-line:

Joan of Arc by Joseph Delteil (trans. Malcolm Cowley) New York:
Minton, Balch, 1926. (NOTE: 685K PDF file) This one is in PDF format
and, as such, requires the free Adobe Acrobat Reader software. The
file is 171 pages in total.

http://www.smu.edu/ijas/texts/joan.pdf

Not nearly as long.

The Condemnation and Rehabilitation Trials of Joan of Arc by Jane
Marie Pinzino.
http://www.smu.edu/ijas/pinzino.html


The other quotes are explained quite well on the pages from which I
took them, but don't hesitate to ask for further clarification if
needs be.

Good luck with your paper! 

Regards,
revbrenda1st


Further search strategy:

Joan of Arc military leader
://www.google.ca/search?q=Joan+of+Arc+military+leader&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Church and feudalism
://www.google.ca/search?q=church+and+feudalism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Catholic church Middle Ages France
://www.google.ca/search?q=+Catholic+church+Middle+Ages+France&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
bettjay-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $20.00
Yoo Hoo!!! Great job! Will be using you again!!!

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