Does the matrix exists?

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 08 Apr 2003 14:12 PDT

Elena,

It would be very helpful to Researchers if you'd let us know what sort
of answer you would like. Are you seeking a Researcher's speculative
opinion regarding the possibility that the situation depicted in the
film "The Matrix" might exist? Or are you requiring some sort of proof
that we are, in fact, living in such a "matrix"?

The more you can tell us about your needs, the better we will be able
to serve you.

In any case, please remember: there is no spoon. ;-)

Dear Elena2002, 

The word Matrix has several meanings. 

According to the The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English
Language, Fourth Edition
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=matrix&r=67), Matrix is:
"A situation or surrounding substance within which something else
originates, develops, or is contained: “Freedom of expression is the
matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every form of freedom”
(Benjamin N. Cardozo). “ This derives from another meaning of the word
- a womb (in Latin,  breeding-animal, and you could compare it the
words "mother" in English; "Mutter" in German; the French "Mère" and
the Spanish/ Italian "madre", "Mat" it Russian), and it reflects
itself in the anatomical and geological definitions of the word: in
anatomy, the matrix is indeed the formative cells; in geology, it is
"[t]he solid matter in which a fossil or crystal is embedded."; in
chemistry, it is "[t]he principal metal in an alloy, as the iron in
steel. A binding substance, as cement in concrete. “In printing, it
means the mould from which the output is produced.

Formative substances do exist, and therefore a simple answer to your
question would be that matrix(es) do exist.

In mathematics, the word matrix represents a "rectangular array of
numeric or algebraic quantities subject to mathematical operations; or
[s]omething resembling such an array, as in the regular formation of
elements into columns and rows."

In this case, asking if matrixes exist is like asking if pure
mathematics exist. I'll get to that later, because it has to do with
further definitions and explanations about the existence of the
matrix.

In Computer Science, matrix is "[t]he network of intersections between
input and output leads in a computer, functioning as an encoder or a
decoder." This is again, definition for an element that brings the
output about, although it might be abstract.

Another computer related definition might be the one you're after:
"Fanciful term for a cyberspace expected to emerge from current
networking experiments (see the network). The name of the rather good
1999 cypherpunk movie "The Matrix" played on this sense, which however
had been established for years before. (Source: Jargon File 4.2.0,
from Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=matrix&r=67).

If you are referring to this possibility, of a cyber reality, it is an
interesting theoretical question. As mentioned before, "matrix" is the
substance, from which thing originate, even if in the abstract sense.

The film "Matrix" discusses a reality, in which nothing is "real" -
the environment is dictated by artificially intelligent machines,
which actually control what people sense as "reality".

Is there a matrix like that? How do we know that what we think is real
is actually real?

Epistemologically, this might be an impossible question to answer.
What generates our perception of reality might hinder us from seeing
what reality really is. If I tell you that the answer is "yes" and the
matrix exists, you must ask yourself how do I know what I state as the
"truth" - after all, if machines dictate a cyberspace in which we all
live, how could I know about it? I live in the same reality!

Epistemology is the philosophical field that tries to enquire, how we
know the things we claim to know. There are several streams in
epistemological analysis, but none claims that we are "Tubule Rasa",
people who are a "clean table", with no burden (in that aspect, it
might be interesting for you to view the latest Aki Kaurismäki film
"The Man Without a Past", that tells the story of a man who lost his
memory and his interactions with society. How do we know what we know
about the people in the borderline of society, depicted in the film?
Only because we are raised to think of them as "borderline", "fringe"
or "weird").

In his "Mediations", philosopher Rene Descartes asks exactly these
questions. If we are told that we are created by God, how could we
know it exists? Descartes would like to establish a basis for our
knowledge, which is to claim that only what we could measure and
sense. What we could establish as non existent is "hallucinations".
However, his assertions leave him with a doubt: what if his sensory
beliefs are based on hallucinations? What if he only thinks he knows
what reality is? What is there is a little demon affecting his
perception, creating a fragment of imagination that seems like
reality?

How could Descartes say if he's dreaming, led by a demon or
hallucinating as an insane person? The difference between Neo's
choices and Descartes’ is that there is existence in the film beyond
the Matrix. Not all of Neo's "realities" are led by the Matrix.

Since we hear and see our parents, we are socialised into a reality
and have a certain understanding of it. This happens even before we
are actually able to talk, read, or sense reality in other ways.
People who were born deaf or blind, for example, have completely
different perceptions of reality than people who are born with these
abilities. Who tells you that what you eat is really an "apple" and
not a presentation of it, implanted into your coherence?

Thus, if I tell you that "the matrix", the one featured in the film,
exists, I am entering into a paradoxical loop: I cannot know about
something that is supposed to be external to my perception of reality
(which is dictated by machines, like everybody else's in the Matrix
world).

However, we could actually know about some matrixes and the way the
mould our thinking. Karl Marx knew it - he wrote about the fact, that
our thinking and perception is dictated by who we are. The working
class, specifically, has a false consciousness, affected by the
domination of the bourgeoisie over them. He meant mostly to the
economic (or social) class, to which we belong, but that could be
broadened. There are some places where critical thinking could help us
understand that we are being manipulated, "matrixed", if to use a
non-existing verb, by other powers: our language (which affects the
way we think - just try to think about translations of simple double
meanings and word games into other languages); our identity (may it be
class, gender, ethnicity or other factors); our epistemological
approach.

And if I answer "no, there is no matrix such as in the film"?

That could not be accepted as an answer as well: if the machines
manipulate and generate my perception of reality, I cannot attest that
they don't exist - they could be "matrixing" me (again, this non
existent verb) into thinking that way.

I'll move on to another question, that of the importance of this
question. Although I have established (using the example of the
Marxist consciousness) that we might live in a false consciousness,
affecting our perception of reality, and that being aware of this
false consciousness is part of the "solution" (at least the Marxist
one, it is not clear to me that knowing whether or not the matrix
exists is of an effect. Does the fact that we live in a Matrix, and
that the things we see are not "real" makes them less important? The
proof that we exist relies on the notion that we’re thinking. The same
thoughts that cannot be attested as "reality" are the things that
mould us into human beings.

Our thoughts, Descartes claimed, generate our existence and are
therefore our "Matrix", if to borrow. However:

“Do you believe my being faster or stronger has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?” Do you think that is air that you are
breathing right now?”

“Your mind makes it real.”

“The body cannot live without the mind”.

As Morpheus says in the film <See more quotes and their philosophical
importance at Heusser, "Philosophy and “The Matrix”"
http://homepage.smc.edu/heusser_will/Course1/HO17c_Matrix.htm).

Last but not least, this brings up several other questions: 
- Is it really better to know "the truth"? If you know that your
planet is occupied by aliens and most people's reality is dictated by
a machine, does it help you? If you knew that there is no person that
is called "politicalguru-ga" and I am actually a robot, machine or a
matrix, would it chance your understanding of what the matrix is, or
whether we could ever tell what reality is? See in this context James
Pryor's article "What's so bad about living in the Matrix?"
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/phi.html
- How could you be sure that you actually left the Matrix? If you are
guided by the Matrix, it might be diluting you into believing you've
left it.
 

See further sources: 
Mawson, Tim "The Matrix - an Introduction to Philosophy at Oxford"
http://www.spc.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergrad_course_guides/Matrix.doc
- an essay that echoes my thoughts on the subject and the answer on
the importance of the existence of the matrix.

William Irwin, ed. "The Matrix and Philosophy" Open Court
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/081269502X/ltc-political/104-7986185-1479912
Salon.com book review -
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/12/04/matrix/

Ken Goldberg , MATRIX Exhibit 186 , Ouija 2000 
http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/matrix/186/essay.html - an essay on
technologically existing Matrixes.

Nagel Thomas "What does it all mean?" Oxford: Oxford University Press 
http://faculty.oxy.edu/mdaley/mdaley/Phil%20101%20Web%20Site/101_online_texts/IntroNagel.pdf

Courtney Schlosser, The Matrix of Philosophy
http://www.windchime.com/matrix/front/intro.htm

Discussion: Matrix ("What if the world is really a matrix? ")
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=9770

Philosophy and the Matrix website
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/phi.html

The Matrix game http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/matrix.htm 

The Matrix message board http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/matrix2.htm 

N F Lambkin, APPEARANCE, REALITY AND "THE MATRIX"
http://www.oswestryschool.org.uk/decimus/matrix.htm

Centenary College (2000): 'Study Guide for The Matrix and Plato's
"Allegory of the Cave."'
http://www2.centenary.edu/fye/thematrix/main.html

Ross, Kelley L (1999): 'There Is No Spoon: The Matrix'
http://www.friesian.com/matrix.htm

Silver, Lee M (nd): 'Commentary for Watching the Film The Matrix
(1999)' http://www.princeton.edu/~wws320/Films/Matrix.htm

University of Texas at Austin (Classical Mythology course) (nd):
'Notes on The Matrix' 
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/greekmyth/matrix.html

Wark, McKenzie (1999): 'The Matrix: Keanu Lost in Plato's Cave' 
http://www.nettime.org/nettime.w3archive/199911/msg00181.html

I hope this answered your question. I read some philosophy, as well as
searched the web for <matrix metaphysics> and <matrix epistemology>
and <matrix reality> in order to answer your question. Please feel
free to contact me if you want me to clarify my answer. I'd be pleased
to clarify my answer before you rate it.

Your question is a philosophical one, basically asking "Is there a
reality beyond our perceptions that we are unaware of?"

In complexity theory, this is known as a "recursively enumerable"
proposition- namely a question that cannot ever be answered NO, but
CAN be answered yes.
  
This is very much the same as asking whether or not supernatural
existence actually exists, or whether or not God exists.

A NO answer is philosophically impossible, but a YES answer is fully
possible.

Consider this question:  Do absolutes exist?

If you answer "NO" then you have just made a statement about absolutes
that is in itself an absolute, therefore nullifying the very question
itself.

One cannot rationally say THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO ABSOLUTES!   
In the same manner, one cannot rationally say "THERE IS NO
SUPERNATURAL"
One cannot say "THERE IS NO GOD"
and finally, one cannot say "THERE IS NO MATRIX"


It is a recursively enumerable position, that can only be affirmed,
but never fully denied.


Having said that....most "facts" of science are based on
EVIDENCE...not absolute proofs.  very little in the universe is
"proven"

The quesiton of the Matrix raises the question of existence.  I.E:  Do
you exist?

Consider this:  To deny your existence first REQUIRES existence. 
SOmeone who says "I do not exist" is making an absolute statement
about existence...something that CANNOT be done unless one actually
exists.

So YOU KNOW that you exist (it is a certainty), but I DO NOT.  Each
person can only know with certainty that they exist.  THough I cannot
question my own existence, I most certainly can question yours. 
Perhaps your question was posted by a computer?

Your philosophical question obviously does not have a definitive
answer YES OR NO, but if I were a researcher I would claim the 100
bucks with this answer:

"Is there a Matrix?"
A:  Unkown, though impossible to deny, it can only be affirmed.  This
is a recursively enumerable question.

Even if the Matrix doesn't exist, we are living with many simulations
pretending to be reality.  Check out http://www.transparencynow.com

--ravuri-ga

I did not see the movie, but I can guess from other movies that we are
not and never will be in a matrix exactly or even close to what the
movie described. It is certainly possible that reality resembles
matrix in some respects, perhaps 5%? The probability is about the same
that "Men in Black 1 and 2" were documentary films instead of fiction.
 Neil

Did you take the red pill or the blue pill?

Quite relevant in this context:

The Matrix as Metaphysics (by David J. Chalmers)
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~chalmers/papers/matrix.html

Yes, I think there is a matrix in the sense that it's used in the
movie of the same name. This is discussed indirectly, i.e. not in
reference to The Matrix, in my two favorite books of the moment:

 - - - - -  The Eye of the I by David Hawkins

and

 - - - - -  The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. 

Both books make reference to the matrix of thought forms in which we
as humans operate; the perceptual filter, the screen, through which
'life' is viewed. For anyone interested in enlightenment ideas, these
are great books to read.