I'm interested in what it's like to work as an enty level software
developer at Microsoft. What kind of hours do they put in? Is
Microsoft likely to start laying off software engineers in the
foreseeable future? How high are the salaries they offer? What are the
pros and cons of working for the company?

Hi, Beatle ~

Working at Microsoft is an interesting experience, to say the least.
They were probably among the first to actually relax the 'corporate'
standards so far as dress codes and making the workplace safe,
comfortable and conducive to creativity and innovation.

Here's how the Microsoft website describes it's work environment:

"About 25,000 Microsoft employees work at or near the corporate campus
in Redmond, Washington. (The rest are spread across the globe.)
Blending collegiate camaraderie with an intense business environment,
the "campus" in Redmond is a community unto itself. It's home to more
than 2,800 works of art, 25 cafeterias, basketball courts, soccer
fields, a baseball diamond, volleyball courts, miles of running and
walking paths, and a company store. That's not all. There are
resources: a multibillion-dollar R&D budget, a state-of-the-art
resource center, modern technology, and the Microsoft Museum, which
features interactive exhibits on everything from the very first
personal computer to some of today's most exciting technologies."

  - http://www.microsoft.com/careers/mslife/essence/campuslife.aspx

The corporate campus in Redmond is beautiful, and you can read more
about it here:

  - http://www.microsoft.com/careers/mslife/locations/corpcampus.aspx

They do expect you to put in the hours, and most engineers enter at a
level that requires the hours necessary to deliver a project on time.
Schedules are usually flexible and can in clude telecommuting. The
hours are often dictated by which of the seven core businesses you are
involved in and project deadlines.

As for laying off, there are usually inter-company transfers if a
project is winding down and there are seldom layoffs at Microsoft. In
fact, Microsoft's R&D Department had announced its intention to add
5,000 jobs in that sector.

  - http://money.cnn.com/2002/07/25/technology/microsoft/

Microsoft has devoted an entire section to employment, benefits,
openings, etc. As company policy, they do not include salaries in
their postings; however, they are known throughout the industry as
being competitive (usually slightly above the "norm" for their open
positions) in every field, from support to technology staff.

You can read more about Microsoft and its seven core business units
at:

  - http://www.microsoft.com/careers/mslife/whoweare/ourbusiness/default.aspx

From there, you can follow the links for further information you seek
(ie., locations, current job openings, employee benefits, work
environment, etc.), and some you will need (ie., FAQs, where to
download their resume form, what to do, how to apply, what to expect
at an interview, etc.).

If you're seeking a job at Microsoft, familiarization with the details
in the website will save you a lot of surprises and help you present
yourself in the best possible light.

==================

Google search terms used -
 - Microsoft employment

Search terms on Microsoft site -
 - Current open positions
 - Salaries
 - locations
 - corporate atmosphere
 
Good luck with your endeavors,
Serenata

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Request for Answer Clarification by beatle-ga on 10 Apr 2003 22:44 PDT

I'd really like to get a specific estimate of how many hours the
typical software engineer puts in per week at Microsoft. I know it's
more than 40. The HR person I talked to with the company implied it
was in the 40 - 60 range, but I swear I saw an estimate elsewhere that
they worked 80 hours/week. I think maybe it was at
http://thevault.com/companies/company_main.jsp?co_page=1&product_id=342&ch_id=337
Basically, what I'm trying to do is find one (or hopefully more) other
estimates of many hours are typically required, because 50 hours/week
is doable, but if all independent observers agree that you're expected
to put in 80 hours/week, I'm not even going to apply.

I really wish you wouldn't put so much faith in the corporation's
website to accurately depict the pros and cons of working for them. I
mean, if they worked their programmers to death and paid them below
average wages, they probably wouldn't admit to it on their site. Could
you find out what the one or two most frequent complaints employees
have about Microsoft are?

---

Clarification of Answer by serenata-ga on 11 Apr 2003 02:53 PDT

A few years ago I owned an agency which supplied contract personnel to
one of the Microsoft offices (not the Redmond campus).

It is true that engineers on a project, particularly as deadlines were
nearing, were working as much as 80 hours a week. It happened then,
and given the nature of the business and the customary rush to
deadline of software development, as a deadline nears, the engineers
practically live on the job. I would imagine that the long hours were
one of the reasons for all the conveniences of the workplace. Long
hours happen in the industry, period.

While it isn't written policy; occurrences of hours longer than you
indicate you wish to work happen -- particularly on time-intensive
projects. There is relief once a project or project phase is
completed.

This is an industry-wide phenomenon. I know of at two companies with
software currently in the last weeks of intensive beta testing prior
to release (both scheduled for this quarter) where the engineers
haven't been home for days. So these types of situations are by no
means peculiar to any one company. Unfortunately, it is the nature of
the beast.

Given your statement that you wouldn't care to work longer hours, you
may be right in not applying; it doesn't necessarily have the best
reputation for those who actually have a life. It is difficult to
leave after a 10 hour day when everyone else is sticking around for a
few more hours to complete the project.

I know lead engineers who have gone through situations where they did
work 80 hours a week to bring a project in on time. They will tell you
the same thing - it may not be written policy, but you either do it,
or you start to get passed over for other positions. Sort of one of
those "unwritten rules", I would imagine. These engineers are still
with the company and enjoy a lavish lifestyle. I'm sure they would
tell you they have "paid their dues".

I hope this helps you in making your decision - I suspect it's not an
easy one to make.

Yours ever so,
Serenata

---

Request for Answer Clarification by beatle-ga on 11 Apr 2003 03:19 PDT

How often do the 80 hours weeks occur? And how hard do they work the
rest of the time? Is it, say, a month of 40 hours weeks, then a month
of 60 hours weeks, then a month of 80 hours weeks, then back down to
40?

---

Clarification of Answer by serenata-ga on 11 Apr 2003 05:56 PDT

Beatle -

I would imagine hours-intensive projects depend on a number of
factors, including which of the seven core businesses you work for,
the location you work at, the project or projects you were assigned to
and other factors I can't even think of, but which might require more
than a 40 hour work week.

Look at it this way ... if you apply and get to the interview stage,
you're ahead of the game. If you can survive the interviews and
actually get an offer, you're way ahead of the game. By that time you
won't even have to ask, because if they're going to require a great
deal of your time, they are going to tell you about it so there are no
nasty surprises.

A day interviewing with Microsoft should be worth it, just for the
experience.

They have a lot more happy campers than they do disgruntled workers,
so they must be doing something right.

Serenata

"The dark side is tempting you, Luke"

beatle-ga 

No personal experience but I have a friend that works there. Here's a
crumb: She said it's corporate but fun. Fridges with food, snacks,
pop, etc.

--Cynthia

Hello beatle-ga,

Here are a few articles about what it's like working at Microsoft. If
you go to work for them you should expect that you'll be immersed in a
very intense corporate culture. They hire extremely bright people and
work them hard. The reward is that you can say you've worked for
Microsoft. If you want to have a life, it's not the place for you. It
might be interesting to turn around your question. Why don't you list
some of your most important work interests, goals, values and post a
new question asking for companies that would fit your requirements?
Good luck with your job search.

czh

http://www.itworld.com/Career/1826/ITW0314weinstein/
Do you want to work for Microsoft? 
ITworld.com 3/14/01
Yet sources close to Microsoft, who insist upon anonymity, say working
conditions at the world's largest software company are far from
perfect. A high-ranking technology consultant who is frequently
contracted to work with Microsoft bigwigs on projects says the company
pushes many of its techies to burnout levels. ….  Despite what
Microsoft spokespeople have said in the past, turnover is at least 20
percent and the average employee quits after four years, just after
being vested (Microsoft vests quarterly).


http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/02/002fallows.htm
Inside the Leviathan
A short and stimulating brush with Microsoft's corporate culture 
by James Fallows
The people are nice. Okay, this sounds like a high school bromide. The
reason it's worth mentioning is that it is a surprise, given both the
public's and the software industry's impressions of the company. ….
I had assumed that Microsoft's pace would be at the workaholic extreme
of society, but compared with people in other very hard-driving
organizations -- high-powered law firms, investment banks,
presidential election campaigns, Internet startups, even newspapers
and weekly magazines -- the people at Microsoft seemed to average
fewer hours a week and a lower percentage of all-nighters. Compared
with other companies of more than 30,000 employees, of course,
Microsoft keeps up quite a brisk pace.


http://www.blackbook.org/2000/02/000222.html
Lunchtime break
I was interested by Fallows's observation that all the non-white
people working for Microsoft came from countries not the United
States. I would amend that slightly to say there are lots of people
around me who are from Asian backgrounds but are natives of the US and
the products of American schools. But Fallows is mostly right. Race
correlates with class and poverty level in the US, and US schools do a
really shitty job of teaching poor kids. You get what you pay for. We
do not pay jack shit for schools in states like California, and the
school quality is exactly what you can expect. (Thank goodness I went
to public schools in Massachusetts before Prop 2 1/2-- I got an
education.)

Work in the linux area, much more stable