College tuition rates, and the debts they are leaving in their wake,
seem outrageous.  and it's very hard to tell (from the reports of the
too-interested parties) whether the "costs" are really, truly,
absolutely legitimate, or whether colleges are spending unnecessarily
("a new sports center!") and then claiming those expenses are spent
"on" the students in their "cost" statistics (they like to defend
tuition saying that it is below cost per student).  colleges seem to
get away without much pressure from their primary customers because
students feel they _have_ to go to get a decent job, and because the
price is deviously deferred by the easy availability of student
loans.  schools seem to have the attitude that as long as there are
more loans available, they can allow costs to increase without harming
anyone. 

A) am I wrong about this?  the people who speak on behalf of what we
might call the "education industry" (colleges, 'the college board',
loan providers, so on..) seem to think so, and that alarm over rising
cost is somehow not a real problem that insiders need to be taking
serious action on.  (the disproportionate price of textbooks also makes
it look suspiciously like students have been cornered for easy soaking
but I guess that's another story.)

B) are there, or have there ever been any _credible_ attempts to create
a student-owned (or parent-owned) acreditable Private college?  where 
a student's tuition is truly a quantitative investment in the college;
where it represents a proportional vote in how the money is spent;
where the student is the primary business and the primary concern in
all matters? 

C) is 'B' even remotely realistic, or is there something fundamentally
doomed to failure in the concept?

I don't care about the credit card debt issue, just students who are
trying their best to deal with supposedly benevolent institutions.  I
already have many many sites on college tuition statistics, and reports
of the interested parties, so I'm more interested in a "knowledgeable"
answer from someone who can speak objectively on business costs and
running a college, than a long answer (or list of references and
quotes).

---

Clarification of Question by lusus-ga on 23 Apr 2003 08:27 PDT

focus clarification: just because I structured this a,b,c, doesn't
mean it needs to be answered as a "multipart" question, "C)" is the
essential question.  I'm not looking for research, which I can do
myself, I'm looking for a few minutes of insight by someone who is
personally knowledgable about such things already, and hopefully,
objective.

Interesting questions, lusus-ga. Please take a look at the Google
Answers pricing guidelines to help you increase the probability of
getting an answer.

https://answers.google.com/answers/pricing.html

czh

http://www.temple.edu/documentation/heritage/speech.html "Acres of
Diamonds"

http://www.temple.edu/about/temples_founder.html The Founder of Temple
University, check out second column top paragraph for how this school
started. One student wishing to learn.

I personally think you may have a great beginning idea. If you would
merely write down your dream you might discover it to have wings of
its' own.

Follow me on a possible outcome: 

Lusus questioned the costs of his own academic education, "Why should
my education help pay for the stadium?" "Why should I have to pay
$5000 dollars per year to get a degree that I have heard is only the
beginning of the education I need to support a family?" "Masters
Degrees, Doctoriates, what else?"

So these were the questions that I wished answered, but who would
answer them? The Dean of the local university? Doesn't he earn
$127,000 dollars per year? Or one of his cabinet members? Don't they
earn $65,000 dollars per year each? Or one of the members of the
Board? Don't they receive a large expense voucher also? I can
understand teachers and professors getting a decent salary, where
would we be without them?

These thoughts churned away in the back of my subconscious, always
just below the surface. How could I on my meager income ever afford to
go back to school? How could I send my wife or children to college?
How could we afford not to get that better education? We couldn't. We
would probably have to borrow the money, but from who? Our credit?
FICA scores?

Then one day I risked $10.00, ten dollars that I knew could buy
several meals. But I had to know. Is there any way, any at all, that
might help or allow good deserving people a chance at a better life? A
chance to better themselves? Maybe one of these researchers has the
key? Maybe the $10 dollars is just the catalyst that might create a
flow of ideas? Maybe?

Imagine that the 350 million people here in the United States of
America asked, No, they demanded that their government. That same
government that made school compulsory but allowed children to
graduate without being able to read, or add, or multiply or even
function in society. What if those 350 million citizens demanded that
their government make their country great again? What if those
citizens demanded a free public college education for all that wanted
it? What if those citizens demanded a free vocational education for
those young men and women that wanted good jobs? What if the
government said, "Yes!"

How would we pay for this system? Personally I think the government
already collects enough taxes to do the task. The task of making this
a nation of the Smartest, most educated, most creative, most literate,
most grateful, most giving, most loving people anywhere. An envy to
the world. I am not talking Socialism, or Marxism, or Communism those
systems don't work. History has already proved that. I remember
reading of the bureacracy the government has for things like welfare,
I had read that of $186,000 dollars collected in taxes, by the time
the various departments and politicians got their cut out of that
pie... the amount left for the end-user was 12,000 dollars. Some
people I talk to say, "It is probably less than that." We hold
charities accountable for their books, when are we going to hold our
government accountable for theirs/ours?

If you listen to educators they will try to tell you, "Not enough
money is spent on education." I say they may be right, but I don't
think we would agree on "who's education". I think schools, every
single one deserves the absolute Best Educated teachers that can be
provided. I remember some of my teachers, some of them I am sure were
there for the 3 months off each year. There's no problem with wanting
time off, the only problem was many of those teachers weren't very
good at their jobs. I know I think I would like to teach, that does
not mean I would be good at it. I do enjoy sharing, giving a piece of
myself, something I learned to others. How about you?

I heard somewhere that "the rest of our life" is made up of the time
we spend trying to Overcome high school. As much as think I would like
to go back to those days, I know the attitudes and learnings of that
period and even before in elementary school might be a Big Window into
why life as an adult is questionable. I think if we would spend less
time on geography, and who Emily Dickinson was and a little more time
on who We are, what We are capable of, the power resting in Our minds.
If schools would help students learn to be the very Best that They
could be we would not have to worry wether our country had a
Prosperous future or not. We would know it.

The next move is yours America.

<'(((><