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Q: LLC Passive Investor - Self Employment Tax Liability ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Question  
Subject: LLC Passive Investor - Self Employment Tax Liability
Category: Business and Money > Accounting
Asked by: goko-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 22 Apr 2003 18:20 PDT
Expires: 22 May 2003 18:20 PDT
Question ID: 194086
I am a h1b visa holder working fulltime and plan to start a LLC
part-time . I researched quite a bit and it seems that a h1b holder
can start a business but cannot work for it ( he needs a h1b visa from
the company he starts)

So i plan to employ a Permanant Resident as CEO of the LLC . The
business is virtual in nature and needs little work ( running website)
. Plan to pay justifiable salary to the CEO ($20-25/hr)

My role in the LLC is passive (its also not possible legally to work)
... the CEO is responsible for day-to-day activities .

My question is will i have to pay Self-Employment tax on the LLC's
profits ...

I appreciate a good authoritative answer ( preferably after consulting
to a good CPA or a IRS officer) .

Request for Question Clarification by abigayle-ga on 22 Apr 2003 20:14 PDT
Hi,

I need a little more information before answering your question.  Are
you considered a resident or nonresident alien and are you considering
permanent residency?

Thanks

Clarification of Question by goko-ga on 22 Apr 2003 20:43 PDT
I am considered resident by IRS for tax purposes ( filed US tax
returns for the past 3 years) .

In immigration point of view i am in a non-immigrant visa (H1-B) and
in the middle of the lengthy process of getting permanant residency (
GreenCard)

The CEO i plan to employ in my LLC has greencard (permanant resident)

Clarification of Question by goko-ga on 22 Apr 2003 20:44 PDT
I am considered resident by IRS for tax purposes ( filed US tax
returns for the past 3 years) .

In immigration point of view i am in a non-immigrant visa (H1-B) and
in the middle of the lengthy process of getting permanant residency (
GreenCard)

Also The CEO i plan to employ in my LLC has greencard (permanant
resident)
Answer  
Subject: Re: LLC Passive Investor - Self Employment Tax Liability
Answered By: richard-ga on 22 Apr 2003 21:20 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello and thank you for your question.

Since as described below a US citizen or resident must pay
self-employment tax in these circumstances, the answer turns entirely
on whether or not you are a U.S. resident for the year in question:
"Nonresident aliens are not subject to self-employment tax. Resident
aliens must pay self-employment tax under the same rules that apply to
U.S. citizens. However, a resident alien employed by an international
organization, a foreign government, or a wholly-owned instrumentality
of a foreign government is not subject to the self-employment tax on
income earned in the United States."
 International Taxpayer - Social Security, Medicare and
Self-Employment Tax
 http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97228,00.html

The test of whether or not you are a resident for tax purposes is as
follows:
"Residents of the US are generally subject to the same employment
taxes as citizens. While the IRS and BCIS agree that "green card"
holders are residents, the IRS considers foreign workers temporarily
employed in the US as residents for tax purposes too. This is based on
the IRS "substantial presence" test, where tax residence for any tax
year is generally established if an individual is physically present
in the US for the aggregate of 183 days or more over a three year
period using a formula that gives more weight to the more recent
years."
"Substantial Presence Test 
Tax resident under the substantial presence test if the time spent in
the US is :

(1/1 x days in current tax year) + (1/3 x days in last tax year) +
(1/6 days in previous tax year) > 182; and
At least 10 days in current tax year."
 
Furthermore, the US has tax treaties with many nations that provide
for partial or complete exemption from withholding and/or US income
tax on many forms of income. The terms of these treaties vary and
interested individuals should consult a tax professional.
Tax Issues for Foreign Nationals
http://www.schulzlaw.com/mschulz_taxmemo.php

So if you are non-resident, you are exempt.

Otherwise, here is the authority that exposes US resident sole owners
of an LLC to self-employment tax on their LLC income:

"A limited liability company (LLC) is an entity formed under state law
by filing articles of organization as an LLC. Unlike a partnership,
none of the members of an LLC are personally liable for its debts. An
LLC may be classified for Federal income tax purposes as a sole
proprietorship (referred to as an entity to be disregarded as separate
from its owner), partnership or a corporation. If the LLC has only one
owner, it will automatically be considered to be a sole proprietorship
(referred to as an entity to be disregarded as separate from its
owner), unless an election is made to be treated as a corporation."
Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/page/0,,id%3D15876,00.html

Assuming you are a US resident and have not made an election to have
your LLC treated as a corporation, you are a sole proprietorship, and
it is a disregarded entity for tax purposes.

So the answer to your question for a US resident is the same as if you
had not formed the LLC at all, that is, as if you simply hired this
person directly and had your customers pay you for the services that
he provided to them on your behalf.

"Self-employment tax (SE tax)... applies to those who are
sole-proprietors with net earnings of $400 or more. It also applies to
individuals who have net earnings of $400 or more from the business
entity of a  partnership  or limited  liability company that is
structured as a partnership."
Self-Employment Tax
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99916,00.html

Search terms used:
 self-employment "sole proprietor " site:irs.gov
 h1b visa "self employment tax"
 
I hope you find this informatin useful.  If you find any of it
unclear, please request clarification.  I would appreciate it if you
would hold off on rating my answer until I have an opportunity to
reply.

Sincerely,
Google Answers Researcher
Richard-ga

Clarification of Answer by richard-ga on 22 Apr 2003 21:25 PDT
Hello again:

I was working on the answer while you posted your comment, so I did
not see it.

Since you are considered resident, you are subject to self-employment
tax for the reasons stated in my answer.

For more background on this issue, please take a look at:
Self Employment Tax
http://www.greencompany.com/EducationCenter/GTTRecSelfEmployTax.shtml#selfemployment

Request for Answer Clarification by goko-ga on 23 Apr 2003 22:11 PDT
Richard ,

Thanks...I also researched the IRS pages but wanted to confirm from
someone :) ...

One little question ... can a Guy in H1b Visa form a S corporation
?... By definition S corporation can be formed only by citizens or
resident aliens.

Many websites say a H1B holder cannot form S corporation ...I believe
that they are saying so because they think H1b visa holder is a
"non-resident alien" thats true in visa terms but in Tax terms he is
an resident ( Pls See IRS definitions -
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96392,00.html
)

So Can you please confirm with a CPA or IRS guy that wheather a H1b
visa holder who is in USA continuously for 2 years and also filed tax
returns for the past 3 years can form a S corporation ....thanks

Request for Answer Clarification by goko-ga on 23 Apr 2003 22:16 PDT
Here is the IRS document which says S corporation shareholder must be
citizens or residents

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-94/p589.pdf

I am not sure they mean "resident" in tax terms or visa terms !!

Clarification of Answer by richard-ga on 24 Apr 2003 06:21 PDT
Hello again:

So the question you are asking is whether an h1b visa holder who is
resident in the US can own shares in a sub-S corporation.  I might
have suggested that you post this as a separate question, but I'll
answer it here:

The requirement is Internal Revenue Code Section 1361(b)(1)(C), which
states that an S corp must not "have a nonresident alien as a
shareholder."

The test for resident vs. nonresident is the same as that given in my
original answer.  So if you properly file form 1040 you can own sub S
shares.  If you properly file form 1040NR then you can't.

--Richard
goko-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $2.00
Thanks Richard for the good answer ...I give a rating of 5 Stars 

Last Night i emailed IRS with the S corporation question and i got the
same answer today

Here is the extract from my mail . I am posting it to help people
researching this subject in future ....

Your Question Was:
Hello Sir Madam,  My Question is whether a H1B Non-Immigrant Visa 
Holder who is a  Resident Alien  of USA (for tax purposes) can form a 
S
Corporation  ?  Thanks for your time   PS: Resident Alien Status is 
verified by the tests defined in IRS WebSite http:  www.irs.gov
businesses
small international article 0,,id=96392,00.html

      
The Answer To Your Question Is:
Hello, thank you for your inquiry and for using our Electronic Tax Law
Assistance Service.

To elect S Corporation status you must file Form 2553, Election by a 
Small Business Corporation.

You must meet the requirements of a "small business corporation" which
are, in general: Be a domestic corporation organized under the law of
any state or U.S. territory; Have only individuals, estates or certain
trust as shareholders (no partnerships or corporations as
shareholders;
Have only citizens or residents of the United States as shareholders;
Have only one class of stock (differences in voting rights are OK) The
S
corporation can have no more than 75 shareholders and must make the 
election to be an S corporation on Form 2553, Election by a Small
Business
Corporation,

As a resident alien you can be a shareholder of an S Corporation.

However, once you become a nonresident alien you would no longer be 
able to be a shareholder of an S Corporation.

For more information on the above issue, please refer to Publication 
542, Corporations, the instructions for Form 2553 and Form 1120S, U.S.
Income Tax Return for an S Corporation. 

We hope this information is helpful.

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