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Subject:
word for when art is in art
Category: Arts and Entertainment Asked by: sosodelf-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
26 Apr 2003 18:07 PDT
Expires: 26 May 2003 18:07 PDT Question ID: 195962 |
What is the word for when art is in art. For example, when there is a sculpture portrayed in a painting or when a painting is mentioned in a poem. Allusion is not the word I am looking for. |
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Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
Answered By: juggler-ga on 26 Apr 2003 20:20 PDT |
Hello. I believe that the word that you're looking for is "ekphrasis." "'Ekphrasis.' Ekphrasis can be defined as 'art within art; the act of exercising one art form (poetry) to bring life to other art forms (paintings, sculptures, music, and dance).' This process was first appears in the Golden Age of Greece." source: Xfrasis translations, hosted by alike.com http://www.alike.com/haikufilms/xfrasis.htm "The term ekphrasis is defined in a variety of ways, all relating in general towords representing something visual in content. The Oxford Classical Dictionary, states that ekphrasis is, 'an extended and detailed literary description of any object, real or imaginary' (515)." source: Ekphrasis, hosted by rochester.edu http://www.courses.rochester.edu/kraus/Ekphrasis.htm "ekphrasis, or the poetic description of a work of art. Formally speaking, ekphrasis is any description which brings a person, place, or thing vividly before the mind's eye.[1] But this definition is only useful if we are thinking in broad terms, or if we are invoking the rhetorical function of the word as set forth in Aphthonius's Progymnasmata, one of the earliest textbooks of prose style. For our purposes, ekphrasis can be understood as a means of citing one work of art within another, " source: "Shelley, Medusa, and the Perils of Ekphrasis" http://www.otal.umd.edu/~eshevlin/gscott.html search strategy: "art within art" defined I hope this helps. |
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Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: burris-ga on 26 Apr 2003 23:28 PDT |
Personally, I am not so sure that ekphrasis is the right word re this question. An example of E.in a weak sense would perhaps be Keats' Ode to (on?} a Grecian Urn--in a strong sense the classic example: the detailed, elaborate description of the Shield of Achilleus in the Iliad. An example of what was asked for would surely be the paintings on the wall in various paintings of Rembrandt, or the (um) allusion to one of Brahms' symphonies in Nielsen's 5th Symphony (I think that's where it is). Seems to me that a critical aspect of E. is a detailed de- scription of something within a larger work. (I guess it goes without saying that both description and surrounding work must be in the same medium.)-- Com- ments, criticism, miscellaneous abuse? |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: juggler-ga on 26 Apr 2003 23:59 PDT |
Well, Burris, the question specifically asked for the word to describe "when a painting is mentioned in a poem." As indicated, the proper word is ekphrasis. Moreover, a scholarly article cited above gives a broad definition of the word: "For our purposes, ekphrasis can be understood as a means of citing one work of art within another." If you are aware of a better word, I'd love to hear it. Best regards, juggler |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: mvguy-ga on 27 Apr 2003 00:11 PDT |
I'd agree that "ekphrasis" works for written descriptions of visual media. I'd suspect that if there were a special word for a picture within a picture it would be on the following page: http://www.sangensha.co.jp/allbooks/index/064E.htm I suppose if you want to impress your friends you could use "tableau dans de tableau." I did come across one reference that used the term "embedded," but it is used in a variety of contexts, even when pertaining to art. |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: j_philipp-ga on 27 Apr 2003 00:28 PDT |
In my opinion, "ekphrasis" fits very good. Maybe "re-representation" as alternative. |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: voila-ga on 27 Apr 2003 12:49 PDT |
You mentioned "allusion" which made me think "trompe l'oliel" but it doesn't match the definition as given. Agree with juggler's "ekphrasis." Sample of trompe l'oliel: http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/trompe-info.htm |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: voila-ga on 28 Apr 2003 10:56 PDT |
Here's a 21st century example of trompe l'oeil (note the painting within a painting of Marilyn Monroe) with diaries to match the motif. http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/04/11/tem_art_review_artist.html http://www.michaelscott.net/exhibit_redhen.htm http://www.michaelscott.net/diane_armitage.htm http://www.michaelscott.net/marilyn_bauer.htm Here's to Red finding her moxie and me learning how to spell "trompe l'oeil" correctly. ;-) |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: juggler-ga on 28 Apr 2003 11:17 PDT |
Thanks for the input, Voila. Trompe l'Oeil is interesting, but it certainly could not be considered a general term for "art within art" applicable to, say, a painting mentioned in a poem. "Trompe l'Oeil (trohmp loy'): A form of illusionistic painting that attempts to represent an object as though it existed in three dimensions at the surface of the painting; literally, 'trick-the-eye.'" http://shop.store.yahoo.com/catmandrew/tromloeilsti.html |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: voila-ga on 28 Apr 2003 11:51 PDT |
Nah, juggler, I'm sure it's not "trompe l'oeil" but I just wanted to play pimp-the-painter. Gotta give it up for a hen who channels the genome code for Elvis. "Ekphrasis" is much more accurate to the definition. ;-) |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: burris-ga on 01 May 2003 18:09 PDT |
Hi all--I'll have another shot at this issue of ekphrasis. The definition in the OCD of e. does say "an extended...literary description of any object...." And the scholarly article you cite (I'm sure you're referring to your 3rd citation) makes it quite clear, in the first paragraph, that it is dealing with the same notion. You don't quite play fair by referring to one part of sosodelf's query "a painting mentioned in a poem" without referencing the other part "sculpture portrayed in a painting". The former is an e. so long as the mention of the painting is "extended and detailed" (OCD). The latter however is altogether different. I argue that a sculpture, painting, or textual quotation in a painting simply doesn't fit the the definition. This can best be described as (sorry) an allusion. The devil is in the details--in this case a question of medium--literary or graphic. (By the way, the OCD's one-paragraph definition is not really not very comprehensive--a much more interesting one is in the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry & Poetics.) P.S. Trompe l'oeil, if that's the way it's spelled, is a fascinating subject--but off point. It simply means a painting so realistic that a viewer is tricked into thinking the representaion is the thing represented. |
Subject:
Re: word for when art is in art
From: juggler-ga on 01 May 2003 18:55 PDT |
Burris: I'm sorry, but a sculpture, painting, or textual quotation in a painting can indeed fit the definition of ekphrasis. Such "art within art" is what critics have called "visual" ekphrasis. Here's an example of this exact usage in an article from the Los Angeles Times: "Photographs of artworks from antiquity to the late 1930s make up 'Images That Yet/Fresh Images Beget . . .: Photographing Art.' ... 'The photographs in this exhibit are visual ekphrasis. The visual object (each photograph depicts) is the starting point for the photographs...' This concept is well illustrated by a Kertesz photograph on view, Lifson, visiting Los Angeles recently, said in a phone interview. The image depicts a statue representing the Republic of France presiding over a populated plaza. This action is seen through the transparent face of a large clock, whose one dark hand and Roman numerals obscure part of the Parisian scenario." Source: ARTWORKS BEGET PHOTOS IN GETTY EXHIBITION The Los Angeles Times (Pre-1997 Fulltext); Los Angeles, Calif.; Sep 27, 1987 Again, I'm still waiting for you to come up with a better word. The customer specifically asked for a word other than "allusion." Frankly, I was surprised to see you suggest that, as that word in no way conveys the special sense of "art within art." |
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