Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: meta tags and search engines ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   7 Comments )
Question  
Subject: meta tags and search engines
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: anamator-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 06 May 2003 20:13 PDT
Expires: 05 Jun 2003 20:13 PDT
Question ID: 200422
why can't i get my current web site listed in the google or other
search engines?  i can't get it to show up unless i type the exact
domain name without spaces?  for example, mayatraining.com or
mayatraining and then when it shows up, it is using a cached page that
is very old like a month and a half.  are my meta tags correct?  my
code?  what is the deal?  this is really killing my business.  i have
even tried deleting the current meta's and generating new ones.

Clarification of Question by anamator-ga on 06 May 2003 20:31 PDT
i want to be able to type: maya training and see my page listed at
least in the top 100 heck.  please give me suggestions.  i have even
tried adding the meta code from my other web site which is ranked
currently #1 in google if you type in: animation tampa in the search. 
the web site is tridstudios.com
Answer  
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
Answered By: shiva777-ga on 07 May 2003 11:34 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
 
Hello Anamator.  First of all it's important not to fall into the
common error of overemphasizing keywords and keyphrases in metatags
over keywords/phrases in the actual content of the page.  Some search
engines still do weigh in metatags but usually only in relation to the
actual text. For example, if you have "maya training" in your metatag,
but not in your page text, a search engine spider might acutally think
you're trying to spam the search it and penalize you. Of course they
all work slightly differently.

As I understand it, Google current pays no attention at all to
metatags but only to the content of the page. The first thing I
noticed about your index page at mayatraining.com is that it has
virtually no text. All the text blocks are graphics. This explains
your nonexistence in the Google search engine: Google doesn't count
metatags and you have given it no text to analyze for keywords!

My advice to you would be to redesign your site replacing all of those
images with actual text. In your text put an emphasis on keyphrases
such as "maya training", "learn maya", "maya tutorial", "tampa", etc.
Especially important keyphrases such as "maya training" mention at
least 3 times in the page. Write copy that is good and makes sense,
but also with emphasizing the right keywords in mind.

When you have made these changes resubmit your URL to Google at:
://www.google.com/addurl.html. I also recommend
http://www.selfpromotion.com as an excellent free tool for other
search engine and web index submissions.

Also don't understimate the value of pay per click programs such as
Google Adwords (http://adwords.google.com) and Overture
(http://www.overture.com) where you can get targetted click throughs
for as little as $.05. I know several business that have successfully
used these.

Depending on how important you think it is, you may also want to hire
a 3rd party specialists such as http://www.highrankings.com/ to help
you get high rankings, but in my opinion, given that you have a
somewhat unique business don't have as much competition as other
companies, you shouldn't need to do this.


Here are some relevant links that you will find useful:

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=198772

http://www.internetmarketingwebsites.com/searching-gg.htm

http://www.bruceclay.com/web_rank.htm

http://www.pandia.com/optimization/SEO-guide.html


Good luck with your web site and business venture!
-shiva777

Request for Answer Clarification by anamator-ga on 07 May 2003 20:54 PDT
shiva777,

I don't understand... I have created the two site with the same
program.  One gets ranked high and the other one not at all.  I guess
I could add some more html text to training site.  That will probably
do it like you said.  Is there a way to add invisible text into the
html so that it will not show up on the page but, a search engine will
read it?

As far as the Google Ad words....you sound like a sales rep for
Google.  I was using that until I got a bill for $675 for two weeks of
use.  I got absolutely no business from that.  Only inquiries it
seems.  I am through with that until I can at least get listed in the
free listings.

So basically my meta tags are o.k.?  I have added my listing to google
about 10 times in the last month along with yahoo, alta vista, msn,
dmoz, etc. trying to get listed.  I think I might be band from them or
maybe its just the text that I need to add to the page.

What about the cached pages on google?  Why is my site still cached
with the old information.  It has been like that for over a month.

Clarification of Answer by shiva777-ga on 08 May 2003 04:13 PDT
Hello Anamator. Definitely add more html text. There is a way to add
invisible text, but it will get you banned from most search engines
fast! Basically if you look like your spamming the search engine
trying to get a higher rating than you deserve then you stand the
chance of getting penalized or even banned. One of these ways is to
have lots of keywords in your metatags that are not in your html text,
like you have now.

And no I'm not a Google Adwords rep and I don't get a cut for
referrals. :-)
I do recommend it because it is an excellent program. When people get
poor results with cpc programs I have found that often it is because
they did not target their ad enough. For example, if you are trying to
advertise your on-site classes, it is crucial that the word 'tampa'
(and/or surrounding towns) be in both your adwords and your
description. For a more ind-depth commentary on using adwords and
similar programs I'll refer you to two answers I gave a couple weeks
ago:

https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=193878
https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=194711

Your metatags are OK, but you definitely have room for more. Go
through the text of each page looking for more. For example, on your
main page I see Nurbs, Modeling and Maya Effects as three more that
could be added.

If you find that your page is cached for an inordinately long amount
of time resubmit it to the search engine. But do this only after you
have made changes. This way, if it is a problem with your site you
won't be repeating the problem, being penalized again and/or risk
getting banned.

Good luck!
-shiva777

Request for Answer Clarification by anamator-ga on 08 May 2003 20:24 PDT
Well I will definately take your advice and add some more keywords
into my text and meta keywords section.

I have another question... Can a search engine band you for sending
out a massive e-mail blast one time?  I did this when I first launched
the site and it seem that might have something to do with my rankings.
 I also found one foreign web site who listed me as spaming.  Type in
the word "mayatraining.com" into the search line in google.  About 6
listings appear and one of them is in Japenese and you can see where
they mention spamming for mayatraining.com.  Will this effect my
rankings?

So to clarify you are telling me that the spiders for the search
engines look for the keywords in the text mostly and some in the meta
tags.  So populate your site with the keywords necessary in the text
(but, not more than 3 times per page).  What about the other pages? 
Does the same apply to them?

Thank you,
anamator

Clarification of Answer by shiva777-ga on 09 May 2003 08:52 PDT
Hello again.

I don't believe that you're mass mailing incident would have an effect
on your search engine listings. I dont really see a connection. Search
engine rankings are pretty much automated by 'bots' that spider the
web and I doubt they would pick that up.

There are really no hard rules about optimization because each search
engine has different criteria of what's important. Some weigh meta
tags heavily, some ignore them. For some the title of the page is very
important. There is a piece of software called Web Position Gold
(http://www.web-positiongold.com/) that will analyze your pages and
tell you how good they are for each specific search engine. It will
also create 'doorway pages' optimized for each search engine, or at
least the major ones. The software is expensive, but may be worthwhile
for you. If you pay a company to promote your site, chances are they
are just using this program.

And you are right on about the text. Try to write the text throughout
your site with keywords in mind. Remember, that bots spider your
entire site and not just your front page. For example, if you have
page about nurbs make sure to mention that word several times
throughout the page. I wouldn't worry too much about repeating it more
than 3 times, I think you can even mention it 7-8 times or more, but I
wouldn't get too carried away. Just make sure the keyword is well
spaced through the page and of course makes logical sense in the
context of the page. People used to just write a keyword on a page
hundreds of times, but search bots are pretty wise about things like
that now. Also, in this example, make sure that nurbs is mentioned in
the meta tags, the meta description and the title for that particular
page. If you have images call them nurbs.jpg,etc.  Do this and when
someone is searching for informaton on nurbs they will be much more
likely to come upon your site.

Good luck!
-shiva777
anamator-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars
Thank you all.

Comments  
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: aceresearcher-ga on 07 May 2003 15:50 PDT
 
anamator,

While I can not say for sure, I would place long odds that one of your
sites is not getting listed because it contains a **great** deal of
duplicate information from your other site.

The Googlebot is quite sophisticated, and it is able to recognize
attempts by webmasters to improve Page Rank and placement in Search
Results by erecting one or more "mirror" sites. You run the very real
risk of getting both your sites banned from Google.

My recommendation is that you combine the two sites and concentrate
your efforts at improving Page Rank and Search placement on that one
site.

Regards,

aceresearcher
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: anamator-ga on 07 May 2003 20:45 PDT
 
I cannot combine my sites as one focus' on education and the other on
production.  Although the production site also offers education
classes the main focus of that site is the production.  I have tried
to differenitate the two sites meta's.
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: aceresearcher-ga on 08 May 2003 09:26 PDT
 
anamator,

The Googlebot no longer looks at <meta> keywords or descriptions,
because webmasters were attempting to manipulate Search Engine results
by mislabeling in these areas. The Googlebot looks only at **TEXT**
and links.

The text and links on your two sites contains a fair amount of
duplicate content. If you are going to keep the two sites separate,
you will probably want to re-vamp one or both of them so that
duplicate content is kept to a minimum.

Best wishes,

aceresearcher
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: robertskelton-ga on 09 May 2003 14:50 PDT
 
anamator - 

Keywords
--------

I feel like typing this in all caps, because it is important that you
understand this and move on:

Forget About Meta Keywords

They are useless, a relic of the past, they are ignored by search
engines.

Text
----

This is so, so critical. Google can not understand a single word of
your home page. Google indexes plain text, people search for plain
text, your site doesn't have any. If you don't do a major re-design
and replace the graphics text with plain text, you won't get any
visitors. Period.

Cache
-----

There is a very good reason why Google's cache of your site is old -
you have told it not to cache any more. It's in the <head> section of
your page:

<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOARCHIVE">

Remove it to be cached.

Kinda Banned
-----------

Your site has a PageRank of zero, which means you or your site have
done something to displease Google. I would need to see your other
site to know if duplicate content is the problem. It could be that you
use software to check your ranking on Google. You may have once used a
link exchange scheme. It could just be because of the nocache tag -
I've never seen a site use it before, so I don't know if that causes a
PR of zero.
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: robertskelton-ga on 09 May 2003 20:04 PDT
 
One more thing:

Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check
rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate
our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products
such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries
to Google.
://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

Google have been known to ban the sites of webmasters who use this
software for automated ranking queries. It might be useful for other
things, but it's best not use it to access Google.
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: anamator-ga on 10 May 2003 09:18 PDT
 
robertskelton,

I just recently added this meta <META NAME="ROBOTS"
CONTENT="NOARCHIVE"> to the site like a week ago. I saw it on googles
resources page.  It said to place it on your page if you don't want
google to cache your web page.  There was also a page to tell it to
releases the current cache and I did that.  But, it seems that it is
still cached.  So I guess now that I am using this it will not cache
anymore but, it will still hold on to the last cached page?

My other website is www.tridstudios.com.  Please check it our and you
will see that I have created both site using Adobe ImageReady and the
content on the two are different.  www.tridstudios.com is a production
company website and offers training and the www.mayatraining.com is an
all training website.  I am now using different metas for both sites. 
The page titles are also different.

As for the program web-position gold, how will google know if I am
using this program?  shiva777 recommends it and I have read other
posts where others have recommened it as well.  Could you please
recommend another program?  I use Submit Wolf Pro to submit my web
sites but, it doesn't submit to Google, Yahoo, AOL, DMOZ, MSN.  It
does submit to smaller sites like altavista, askjeeves and others.

Thank you,
anamator
Subject: Re: meta tags and search engines
From: aceresearcher-ga on 12 May 2003 10:26 PDT
 
Greetings, anamator!
 
You said:
"My other website is www.tridstudios.com.  Please check it our and you
will see that I have created both site using Adobe ImageReady and the
content on the two are different.  www.tridstudios.com is a production
company website and offers training and the www.mayatraining.com is an
all training website.  I am now using different metas for both sites.
"

The Googlebot ***no longer looks at <meta> keywords or
descriptions***. The Googlebot looks only at **TEXT** and links, not
at how the page is laid out.
 
The text and links on your two sites contains a fair amount of
duplicate content. If you are going to keep the two sites separate,
you will probably want to re-vamp one or both of them so that
duplicate content is kept to a minimum.
 
You said:
"As for the program web-position gold, how will google know if I am
using this program?  shiva777 recommends it and I have read other
posts where others have recommened it as well.  Could you please
recommend another program?  I use Submit Wolf Pro to submit my web
sites but, it doesn't submit to Google, Yahoo, AOL, DMOZ, MSN.  It
does submit to smaller sites like altavista, askjeeves and others."

Just about ***ANY*** type of automated submission OR Search Ranking
checker can get you banned from Google. You DON'T want to use a
program to automatically submit your site, or to query Google
periodically on your site's Search Results Rank. You need to do it
manually. Programs like Webposition Gold often claim that they will
help, not hurt your Page Rank in Google. In fact, such programs are
one of the **quickest** ways to get your site banned from Google.

I second nainilchheda's recommendation of WebmasterWorld:
http://www.webmasterworld.com
This is an excellent resource, and some of the information is posted
by people who work full-time at figuring out what helps and what hurts
when it comes to Search Engine positioning. I encourage you to spend
time reading the forums there. You can use their "Search" option to
find postings on specific topics.

Best wishes, 
 
aceresearcher

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy