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Q: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement ( Answered,   6 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: phototv-ga
List Price: $100.00
Posted: 06 May 2003 23:23 PDT
Expires: 05 Jun 2003 23:23 PDT
Question ID: 200488
My website (www.dogbedsetc.com) was programmed by someone who said
they knew e-commerce. After research on this website and other sources
I have found that no backend stuff was done for the Search Engines to
find my site. I have pushed to finally get meta descriptions,
keywords, etc. on the home page.

Some items that may be causing problems:
** dynamic site with URLs that have no relevant words in title. (I
have hired someone to change the 2nd tier URLS - Sections - to reflect
relevant names and to add alt tags to pictures).
** I have hired someone to add meta keywords, descriptions, to the
section pages. Will this help?
** Can you identify other problems with pages (text, descriptions, alt
tags, etc.)
** I read in Elizabeth Castro's book "HTML for the WWW" (page 422)
that a Crawler Page should be created to link each page to each other
and have the Crawler Page submitted to the search engines. Please
comment and tell me if that would help.
** Until last month Google had finally found my home page. I had a
ranking of "4".  Google also reflected links to my page. Suddenly my
site was lowered to a "3" and no links can be found.  Is there
something on my site creating this problem?
** Please advise as to other structural problems with my website which
is affecting Search Engine placement. Please advise as to any ideas on
the structure of the website and its pages for improvement and other
critical ideas for Search Engine placement.

 I am frustrated after paying so much for an "expert" to create the
site and to find that the basics were not done.

Clarification of Question by phototv-ga on 08 May 2003 17:35 PDT
I have researched websites like Search Engine, etc. and understand the
theory behind what should be done. Thus, referring me to general
information is redundant.  I am not a programmer and thus can not look
at the View Source codes on my website and the particular URLs to
understand SPECIFICALLY what should be changed. It is this assistance
I am requesting - from metatags, descriptions, alt tags, etc.

I would like someone to provide examples on my website and what should
change - please take a critical eye so I finally have a chance....

Also - if you enter www.dogbedsetc.com in the Spider Analysis and see
The Spider Links at the bottom--when you click on them it shows "No
Page Can be Displayed".  Can you tell me why.
(http://www.searchengineworld.com/cgi-bin/sim_spider.cgi)


In addition - on Home page and other pages on my site there is a lot
of random digits/numbers in the coding. Can you tell me what that
might be for?

Thanks
Answer  
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
Answered By: robertskelton-ga on 08 May 2003 21:15 PDT
 
Hi there,

Here is some practical advice to help your site get more visitors from
Google and other search engines, plus some responses to your specific
questions.


Dynamic Content
---------------

This is the biggie. Although Google is able to index dynamic websites,
it doesn't usually. In your case, the only pages it has indexed are
ones which do not have a ? in the URL:

www.dogbedsetc.com/
www.dogbedsetc.com/orderinfo.aspx
www.dogbedsetc.com/contactus.aspx
www.dogbedsetc.com/aboutus.aspx
www.dogbedsetc.com/viewcart.aspx

://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:dogbedsetc.com/+site:www.dogbedsetc.com+

"We are able to index dynamically generated pages. However, because
our web crawler can easily overwhelm and crash sites serving dynamic
content, we limit the amount of dynamic pages we index."
://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html#A1

Some webmasters believe that dynamic URLs are fine as long as they
don't include session IDs or anything that looks like a session ID.
GoogleGuy (a Google engineer) says:

"The little mantra I repeat to myself is "dynamic urls ok, avoid
sessionids if at all possible." Spiders don't like sessionsids. :) "
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/9256-2-15.htm

The trick could be to remove any parameters from your URLs that are,
or look like, session IDs. However, seeing as Google can and does
index sites with URLs like yours, it appears that Google has simply
decided that your site is one of the many with dynamic pages that it
chooses not to index.

To be certain of being indexed, you need to convince Google that your
pages are static. I am not a programmer, but it is clear to me that
you have two options:

1) Redesign the entire site so that every page is static
2) Use mod_rewrite or a product like the XQASP filter which will
rewrite the URL so that it appears to be static

A Users Guide to URL Rewriting with the Apache Webserver 
http://www.engelschall.com/pw/apache/rewriteguide/

XQASP filter 
http://xde.net/xq/tool.xqasp/qx/index.htm


Page Titles
-----------

Page titles are extremely important. Firstly, when someone bookmarks a
page, it should say what the topic of the page is. Otherwise there is
less chance of them returning. For search engine optimization, keep
these points in mind:

1) To get the most chances of appearing in search results, make every
page title in your site is different.
2) Try and make the title read the same as the keywords someone might
search for, in the same order.
3) For Google, shorter is better. Two or three words is best.
4) Experiment! Every month change the title of any pages not receiving
search engine traffic, and see if the new title makes a difference.

There is one problem which can only be decided by individual
webmasters - your company name. Including it in the title is good for
the visitor and bookmarks. It just doesn't help get search engine
traffic. I recommend having your company name in the title of your
home page, about us, contact us, and shopping cart pages. For
individual product pages, and any articles or FAQ pages, no company
name.


Spider Simulator
----------------

You need to enter an actual file name, such as:
http://www.dogbedsetc.com/default.aspx

Although http://www.dogbedsetc.com resolves to the above file, it is
not a file in itself.

The funny character appearing in the title is because the hyphen used
in the title is non-standard. It looks like this – instead of this -.
If I look too close I get cross-eyed, but I think it is slightly
longer than normal. It would surprise me if, when I post this answer,
it comes out with the same funny characters.

I suggest changing it.


Random Text
-----------

If by random text you mean:

<input type="hidden" name="__VIEWSTATE"
value="dDwtMTQ2NzM3OTIyMjt0PDtsPGk8MT47PjtsPHQ8O2w8aTwzPjtpPDU+O2k8OT47PjtsPHQ8O2w8aTwxPjtpPDM+Oz47bDx0PHA8cDxsPFRleHQ7PjtsPDA7Pj47Pjs7Pjt0PH....
etc

It's just a way for ASP to keep track of what the customer was doing:

"ViewState is a feature provided by ASP.Net that stores information
for server controls used on a web page. The primary advantage of this
feature from a developer perspective is that it keeps the values of
controls on a form. If the user forgot a single required field on a
form, ASP.Net can put back the other values they had entered rather
than forcing the developer to repopulate them. The information is
encoded into a string and placed in a hidden form field called
“__VIEWSTATE” that is sent to the client with the response (you can
see this by using View Source in your browser when you view a .aspx
page). ASP.Net by default also calculates a “hash” of the information
and adds it to the ViewState, then on a postback it can validate that
the data has not been corrupted."
http://www.aspalliance.com/robertb/articles.aspx?articleId=2


META tags
---------

Keyword tags are a waste of time. They have been abused to the point
that no reputable search engine takes any notice of them. They are
harmless though, so don't stress about removing any that exist
already.

Description tags are important. They should be written in everyday
language, one or two sentences. Not only do some search engines use
them, editors at directories like Open Directory use them - it saves
them from thinking one up.

The description for your home page is fine. For products, something
simple like this will suffice:

 <meta name="description" content="Wheel Away Pet Carrier, an
easy-to-pull soft dog carrier that converts to backpack, car seat and
bed  - from Dog Beds Etc.">


ALT attribute
-------------

More popularly known as the ALT tag, it is a description for an image.
All images on your site should have a description - it makes your site
more usable for vision-impaired users, and it greatly increases the
odds of someone finding your site via an image search.

Instead of this for your logo:
<IMG SRC="images/siteImages/main.jpg" border="0">

Have:
<IMG SRC="images/siteImages/main.jpg" border="0" alt="Dog Beds Etc">


Click Picture to order
----------------------

Most of your first-tier pages don't say much about the product, and
advise:
Click Picture to order

This could be costing you a lot of sales - customers want to know as
much as possible about a product before ordering, and they will not
guess that clicking on the picture provides more info. Make sure you
change the wording to:
Click Picture for details [or] Click Picture for more info


Crawler page
------------

It makes sense to make it as easy as possible for a search engine to
find every page of your site. This is the only page you need to submit
to search engines. If possible make it serve a dual purpose - it can
also be a site map for your visitors to use. No matter how good your
navigation system is, there are always a few folk (like me) who go
straight to the site map when visiting a site.

Make sure it is static.

IMPORTANT: Google only follows the first 100 links on a page. If your
site has more than 100 pages, you need to make several site maps /
crawler pages.


Backward Links
--------------

Google only shows backward links for sites with a PageRank of 4 or
more. Don't worry, Google still knows about the links, it just doesn't
list them. To see all your backward links, enter your site's URL in
the search box at http://alltheweb.com

There could be many reasons why your site dropped from PR4 to PR3. One
of the more likely one is Google deciding that the Yahoo category you
are listed in is less important than before.

It is normal for sites to have their PR go up or down a notch every
now and then. Keep in mind that the PR only represents the true
figure. Dropping from PR4 to PR3 might in reality might just be a drop
from 564,789 to 564,682 - with sites above 564,700 being described as
PR4, and below that as PR3. No-one outside of Google knows what the
numbers really are.


Directories
-----------

Being listed in Yahoo is good for increasing PageRank:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Shopping_and_Services/Animals/Supplies__Equipment__and_Gifts/Beds/

What would help even more would be a listing in the Open Directory.
This is the best category to submit to:
http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Pets/Supplies/



If you need any part of my answer clarified or expanded upon, just ask
for a clarification and I'll get back to you.


Best wishes,
robertskelton-ga
Comments  
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
From: robertskelton-ga on 07 May 2003 17:31 PDT
 
" Until last month Google had finally found my home page. I had a 
ranking of "4".  Google also reflected links to my page. Suddenly my 
site was lowered to a "3" and no links can be found.  Is there 
something on my site creating this problem? "

Google only shows backward links for sites with a PageRank of 4 or
more. Don't worry, Google still knows about the links, it just doesn't
list them. To see all your backward links, enter your site's URL in
the search box at http://alltheweb.com

The easiest way to improve your PageRank is to get listed in Open
Directory and/or Yahoo.
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
From: robertskelton-ga on 07 May 2003 17:34 PDT
 
Oh yeah, submitting to Yahoo is not sufficient, if you really want to
be listed, you need to pay them $299 per year.
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
From: phototv-ga on 07 May 2003 18:10 PDT
 
I had paid the $299 to Yahoo.

Thanks

Linda
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
From: j_philipp-ga on 08 May 2003 01:10 PDT
 
Hello Phototv,

In my opinion, the most important, and first change, should be
creating unique titles for all the pages.

When I analyzed your website (while it was auto-locked by the Google
Answers system) that was the first thing I noticed. All pages seem to
have the same title, "Dog Beds Etc.". Which, unfortunately, is very
bad, unless dog beds would all you have to offer -- search engines
won't acknowledge "etc.".

Adapting to a unique section title (e.g. "Dog Clothes") is necessary.
Those do not have to be static HTML pages, since the most important
search engine today can spider dynamic content as well. It helps a bit
to include an actual verbose title in the URL as well because Google
will analyze backlink-text, but this is not first priority. It would
look like this...

For instance this URL:
... .com/items.aspx?LinkID=01ab41c3-9d29-4959-b2ee-d4e47d7d9a8e

Could be expressed like this:

... .com/items.aspx?LinkID=dog-toys

Higher usability, and if people use the link URL to link back to you,
also a higher keyword count for "dog toys".


Another important change would be to talk about your products
extensively. Talk about your approach to making dog toys. Talk about
what dog toys are. The history of dog toys. Anything dog toys. Use
headers (<h1>, <h2>, ..) and emphasis (<strong>, <em>, ...) for dog
toys. Don't create articifical pages to boos keyword frequency, but,
put a little more "meat" online (content, that is).

Also, you are risking search engines ignoring certain keywords,
because your page is very image-intensive. I would _always_ put text
like "Order Metal Paw Hanger" as _text_. (This is also in accordance
with usability, like most SEO issues.) Sometimes, even the alt-text is
wrong, e.g. "Order the" on some pages, with no relevant keyword at
all!

And just take this page:

http://www.dogbedsetc.com/ItemDisplay.aspx?LinkID=3ef27cdc-8245-4983-95a5-b047566b5f2c

Arriving there, you won't know in which section you are, but that's
not important now. What is important: is this a "dog bowl"? Why does
the phrase not _once_ appear in the HTML source of the page? (Well, we
have "dog bowls" once.)
Actually, it should appear _multiple_ times -- in title, headings,
content, and so on. Be verbose. Be clear & concise, and also vary
terms. Say what things are, what they also are, and what they are
related to. It helps search engines.
And your visitors as well.


As has been mentioned before, clean your source code. There are a lot
of things in it which look like completely redundant, and though
typically Google doesn't care about such things, I simply wouldn't
risk keeping that in.


I'm sorry your website was created by someone who said they know
e-commerce, because they ignored one, likely _the_ most important
factor of e-commerce, and in very plain and crucial matters at that;
Search Engine Optimization. (I'm afraid usability goes hand in hand
with it -- not pricing the products on the product overview is a
_fundamental_ error.)
I'm sorry but I'm trying to be honest here with criticism, because
that's the only thing that can help you, as you might agree.
_However_; if you have control and access to what's been done, and the
motivation to work it over, I think you can easily make the changes in
some days and look into an "SEOed" future.
So, best of luck with your website!
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
From: phototv-ga on 08 May 2003 03:40 PDT
 
To j-phillip-ga..

thanks for the information. i am not a programmer so i have to trust
whoever is going to program my site that they will code it properly. 
In looking at the site, how many hours and cost would you believe I
should estimate to correct these issues?

Also - do you have a recommendation of someone who can do this?

Also - do you have any idea about this? - I have gone to Search Engine
and used the Spider Simulator. It shows Spider Text and Spider Links..
Can you tell me why the SPider links (when clicked on) show that a
page cannot be displayed?  Is
there something wrong in the coding on my site itself

Thanks

phototv
Subject: Re: Website Structure and Affect on Search Engine Placement
From: j_philipp-ga on 09 May 2003 02:32 PDT
 
Hello Phototv,

You are directing questions to me via the comments, so I suggest you
ask further question by posting a new question (which you can then
direct at me, or leave it open, as we have other Researchers
knowledgeable about SEO-issues).
That being said, for now I will continue with my free advice:

I would say it would take some days to repair the site, if the code is
easily accessible. That, however, I cannot tell. I don't know which
database system you use, how the pages are created, and so on. All I
can suspect is that you are using Microsoft Windows Server with
Dot-Net server-side scripting. If the code is well-structured, it
shouldn't take too long to figure out e.g. how to get proper (unique
and descriptive) titles for every page. (But, it does take a
programmer, so it might cost a bit.)

As for a recommendation on who could do this, you might want to ask a
new question, stating your area, how much you want to pay, and so on.
You can also try to find an SEO expert online (I cannot directly lead
you to me or others for private work, as this is against the spirit of
the Google Answers system).
But be aware of any self-prescribed "guru" -- they might be able to do
more harm than good. Maybe you better check back with us here,
Researchers like Robertskelton really know what they are doing and
won't get you into trouble.

Hope this helps. Please note that I'm not notified when you post a new
comment (even though I might check back here). I'm only notified of
requests when I actually answered a question.

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