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Q: odds ( Answered,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: odds
Category: Sports and Recreation > Games
Asked by: salem-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 01 Jun 2002 08:51 PDT
Expires: 08 Jun 2002 08:51 PDT
Question ID: 20073
in regard online blackjack,are the games "rigged" and if not how
different are the odds as opposed to onsite las vegas casinos.please
disregard the "card counting" factor.
Answer  
Subject: Re: odds
Answered By: mvguy-ga on 01 Jun 2002 11:13 PDT
 
Hi,

Objective information about online casinos is hard to come by, but
most reports indicate that:
-- Yes, there have been instances of rigged games, including
blackjack.
-- The problems have occurred almost exclusively at unlicensed and/or
unregulated casinos.  Casinos licensed by a responsible government are
regularly audited and seem to have as few problems as regulated
land-based casinos, and the odds they offer are similar.  There also
have not been rigging problems with casinos that use the leading
software, much of which is made by publicly traded companies.

By slightly adjusting the rules of blackjack it is possible to adjust
the odds.
http://www.thewizardofodds.com/game/onlinebestbets.html
But I have found no indication that blackjack odds are consistently
better or worse at one type of casino or another.  It does appear that
the decks are electronically shuffled with each deal, making it
impossible to win by counting cards.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=es&lr=&threadm=e00bff13.0201200621.1b8e51df%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Donline%2Bblackjack%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D%26selm%3De00bff13.0201200621.1b8e51df%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2

According to 4 Online Gambling, rigging is a problem at some online
casinos, although more reputable casinos have found they can make
money without cheating.
"Any industry has its rogue operators, and online gambling is no
exception. It is probably fair to say that almost 40% of the industry
as it currently stands, is best left untouched. Common complaints from
 customers who have had the misfortune to play with dishonest
operators include:
--Refusal to pay out winnings
--Lengthy delays before winnings are paid  out
--Use of rigged proprietary software, with outcomes not randomly
generated
--Closures with no warning, without refunding deposited funds"
http://www.4online-gambling.com/faqs.htm

On the other hand, says 4 Online Gambling (which has an interest in
promoting gambling), "Your chances of winning money at [honest]
casinos is every bit as good as your chances of winning at your local
terrestrial casino. In fact return to player rates (audited) of these
casinos seem to range from between 96% to 99%, making them every bit
as good (if not better) a bet as terrestrial casinos, and any winnings
are sure to be sent out to you within a few days of your withdrawal
request."

Marc McDermott of Nevada's Gaming Control Board recently cited a case
of fraud involving Internet blackjack:
"McDermott also said one of the major problems with Internet gambling
is maintaining adequate internal controls to keep out hackers or block
in-house cheating.
"He said a recent scam in England cost an Internet gambling operation
about $1.6 million before a rigged online blackjack game was spotted."
http://www.nandotimes.com/technology/story/372142p-2994624c.html

Gambling Magazine warned in 1999 of a case of massive fraud:
http://www.gamblingmagazine.com/articles/34/34-06.htm

Winner Online found that most, but not all, online casinos are honest:
"Online casinos are fair and honest for the most part. If you stick to
the Big Four software manufacturers (Boss Media, Cryptologic,
Microgaming and World Gaming) you shouldn't have to worry about the
fairness of the games themselves - the only thing you need to look
into is their reputation for support and prompt payments."
http://www.winneronline.com/articles/march2002/onlinecasinos.htm
http://www.winneronline.com/articles/february2001/softwareintegrity.htm

A group called the Internet Gaming Commission has found that there is
little problem with *licensed* online casinos, but warns that gamblers
should be wary of casinos that haven't been licensed by a responsible
government. It says that the odds for online casinos are comparable to
those of land casinos, and they can be higher due to low overhead.
http://www.internetcommission.com/faq.asp

One site that appears to more or less objectively review casinos and
such from consumer perspective, the Wizard of Oz, says this:
"You are probably also wondering if the games are fixed. At one point
I said emphatically not. On average the casinos keep about 75% of
money deposited so they shouldn't need to cheat. However I have heard
complaint after complaint of extremely bad luck from playing at some
non-licensed casinos that use no-name Java software. I do believe that
the vast majority of online casinos play fair but am suspicious of a
small minority."
http://www.thewizardofodds.com/game/onlinegambling.html

Similarly, "I do not deny that there is cheating going on. However
just because you had a bad session does not nearly rise to the level
of evidence required to make a convincing case against the casino."
http://www.thewizardofodds.com/game/faq.html

Comparison of online casino software:
http://casinoterry2001.tripod.com/

The Online Casino Watchdog claims to be an organization that
independently monitors online casinos. It claims top online casinos
have payouts of 97 percent or better.
http://www.casino-watchdog.com/

Other sources of information comparing casinos can be found here:
http://dmoz.org/Home/Consumer_Information/Casinos/

If you gamble at an unlicensed casino, a potential problem is that
it's hard to protect yourself from fraud.
"The player has no power or authority to turn to in the event of a
dispute. Usually in the player agreement it says the casino can make
up the rules as they go and in the event of a dispute the casino's
word is final."
http://www.thewizardofodds.com/game/onlinegambling.html

I hope you have found this information helpful.  The odds are never if
your favor, as the house always has the advantage (that's the way
money is made), and some people face the risk of gambling addiction.
However, if you gamble at a reputable, regulated online casino,
chances are you'll be no worse off than gambling on terra firma.

Best wishes,

mvguy
Comments  
Subject: Re: odds
From: webadept-ga on 02 Jun 2002 02:08 PDT
 
As of May 2002, it is still illeagle to host a Blackjack game which
pays money in the United States. Nevada and Ohio and the Atlantic City
people are trying to get this going but the closest currently it
appears is Nevada and only for residents of Nevada, which is a big
stopping point.

So, all the games you find on the web right now are not being
regulated by a U.S.A commision of any kind, and not hosted in the USA.
This doesn't mean they are rigged, but it certainly means there is
probably very few real checks on them.

webadept-ga
Subject: Re: odds
From: plotinus-ga on 05 Jun 2002 05:26 PDT
 
Bear in mind too that there are no online casinos in the UK, because
they are illegal. Under British law a casino has to be location-based.
It's legal to gamble on an online casino if *you* are in the UK,
because an online company is governed only by the laws in its home
country - but under the circumstances it's hardly wise.
Subject: Re: odds
From: tdavid-ga on 18 Jun 2002 09:47 PDT
 
Perhaps a technical point of view here, but deterministic devices like
computers simply cannot generate true random numbers and thus it *is*
possible to determine the outcome. This can be advantageous for the
player and a disadvantage for the house running the online casino
should the player learn what the seed is. So instead these online
casinos are generating what are known as psuedorandom numbers by the
use of a varying input seed. The seed is the formula used to produce
these psuedorandom numbers.

For quite some time now many of the terrestrial casinos like in Vegas,
Atlantic City and Reno have been using computers for slots, video
poker, and the like and so they are presenting the gambler essentially
the same set of options. The main difference being the abundance of
eyes in the sky watching your every move inside the casino and
independent gambling audits which insure that the casino is paying
*overall* back a certain percentage. With slots in Nevada it is in the
92% range. You could play one machine that's set really low and
another is set really high.

So in a sense terrestrial casinos "rig" the games too. Only they know
which machines are programmed to pay which odds -- and it is the
auditors who make sure that overall they are paying back a certain
percentage.

This consumer protection online does exist with some online casinos,
but you still have to figure out if the auditing bureau is really just
another arm of the same company or a truly independent auditing
bureau.

I've seen complaints in various online gambling forums made by players
who swore the results weren't "random enough" so before making a
deposit into an online casino it is wise to keep the following mind:

1) Is it legal to gamble online in your area? Depending on where you
live in the world the answer can range from no to maybe.
2) Who or what organization is auditing the gameplay and cashouts? Is
it an independent auditing firm?
3) How long will cashouts take? Online casinos are notoriously slow
for payback, with cashouts taking anywhere from a couple days to a
month or more to pay you back.
4) Are you gambling with discretionary income? Always play with money
you can afford to lose, because the odds are that you will.
5) Play the casino games that give the player the best odds. Games
like craps with pass line betting strategy are far superior to games
like Keno which can give the house an edge of 30% or more.

Hope this helps :)

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