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Q: Jane Austin novel ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Jane Austin novel
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: coill-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 08 May 2003 12:13 PDT
Expires: 07 Jun 2003 12:13 PDT
Question ID: 201261
I would like a reference to any jane austin novel that contains
a plot including a thieving parishioner and an 
aspiring vicar......if there is one.

Request for Question Clarification by leli-ga on 08 May 2003 12:41 PDT
Hello coill

Although we could find you various vicars, including one who is not
ordained till near the end of the novel, I believe there is only one
theft described in all of Austen's writing, and that is anonymous and
has nothing to do with a vicar.

Pity - because it sounds like a fun question. Perhaps we could help
you dig out some other literary characters and/or incident to suit
your purposes?

Just let us know.

Thanks - Leli

Clarification of Question by coill-ga on 13 May 2003 08:37 PDT
I understand from the response that there is no 
Austin novel that includes an aspiring
pastor/vicar and a thieving parishoner.
Is my understanding correct?
But I would sti be interested in being informed of any 
19th century English (i.e., U.K.) novel that might have
such a set of plot characters.
Thank you.

Request for Question Clarification by leli-ga on 14 May 2003 02:08 PDT
Thanks for your message.

Yes, I'm afraid I did mean that there aren't any Jane Austen novels
with the characters you seek.

"In her novels there is [...]no crime (except for the poultry-thief at
the end of Emma)."
http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/janeart.html

She does write about an aspiring vicar, Edmund Bertram:
"An important topic in Mansfield Park, as in Persuasion, and to a
lesser extent in the rest of Austen's fiction, is religion. Near the
end of the novel, Edmund Bertram is ordained a priest in the Church of
England — in spite of Mary Crawford's insistence that a career in the
church is unchallenging and dull, unworthy of Edmund. The Anglican
ministry, and its significance and importance (or lack thereof), are
discussed several times in the course of the novel."
http://www.csupomona.edu/~absimpson/links/authors/a/austenj.html

I hope someone will be able to think of a literary pair to suit you.

Leli

Request for Question Clarification by leli-ga on 15 May 2003 12:33 PDT
Hello again coill

Your question's been at the back of my mind and I've now thought of
one 19th century English novel which might be suitable, depending on
how you interpret "aspiring vicar".

This is the relevant part of the story:
A young, idealistic vicar has recently arrived in a parish where the
local poacher is known for disreputable living and petty crime. When
the poacher is unfairly charged with a theft, the clergyman tries to
help him.
Later the poacher's son falls into a quarry and breaks his leg. The
vicar rescues him and from then on is a helpful influence on his life.
The boy's father (the poacher) is so grateful that he helps the
clergyman with his dream of building a village school. The boy
receives an education and eventually becomes a clergyman himself.

Just say if this would be any use.

Leli

Clarification of Question by coill-ga on 16 May 2003 13:02 PDT
I am uncertain how to end this google dialog.
I am willing to spend the $5 for the name of the
novel that Leli mentions in the last email message
(poacher and vicar and poacher's son).
How do I end this and receive the answer and Leli gets the $5?
What button to I push to say "send answer and
collect reward"?
Thank you.

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 16 May 2003 14:21 PDT
I've just sent a message to Leli saying that you would like to know
the title of the novel involving the vicar and the poacher. You need
take no further action; I'm sure she'll post her answer soon.

~pinkfreud, Google Answers Researcher
Answer  
Subject: Re: Jane Austin novel
Answered By: leli-ga on 16 May 2003 16:26 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
 
Thanks for getting back to us - sorry if you've found the Google
Answers process mysterious.  I'm glad pinkfreud was around to let you
know I would answer soon, and to let me know that you had sent a
message.

The book I referred to is "My Lady Ludlow" by Elizabeth Gaskell.
Although she is an important Victorian novelist, this is not one of
her better-known books and there is no summary on the net, only the
text of the whole novel. So I have copied and pasted excerpts to give
you an idea of the clergyman, Mr. Gray's, effect on his parishioners,
especially the poacher, Job Gregson, and his son Harry. Eventually the
poacher learns to trust the vicar:
"this rough, untamed, strong giant of a heathen" becomes his "loyal
slave".
Lady Ludlow is also gradually influenced by Mr. Gray, even though she
disagrees with him on many points.


Chapters 1-2

Lady Ludlow is used to having everything run according to her wishes
in the village of Hanbury, but the new vicar, Mr. Gray, has ideas of
his own. Although Lady Ludlow approves of his conscientious
ministering to the sick:
" the new clergyman, Mr. Gray [......] was very zealous in all his
parish work.."
she disagrees with him on the subject of education and doesn't wish to
have a Sunday-school started in 'her' village.

They disagree about the case of Job Gregson, the poacher who has been
committed for trial by the local magistrate. Mr Gray has the courage
to take his duties as clergyman seriously, and does not give in to the
opinions of the local aristocrat.
"Your ladyship must remember that it may be my duty to speak to my
parishioners on many subjects on which they do not agree with me. . .
If I, madam, as the clergyman of this parish, am not to shrink from
telling what I believe to be the truth to the poor and lowly, no more
am I to hold my peace in the presence of the rich and titled."
Her attitude is that "times are changed when the parson of a village
comes to beard the liege lady in her own house".

Lady Ludlow tells him that "Job Gregson is a notorious poacher and
evildoer." But, later, she does look further into the matter. Latham,
the local magistrate, tells her Gregson is, "a man who sets nets and
springes in long cover, and fishes wherever he takes a fancy. It is
but a short step from poaching to thieving." She visits Mrs. Gregson,
realises that the family of twelve children will starve if Job is sent
to gaol and ends up supporting Mr. Gray's point of view.


Chapters 3-4

The estate steward, a Mr. Horner, is also interested in education for
the villagers and wants to teach a boy to read and write to help with
his clerical work.
"He had his pick of the farm-lads for this purpose; and, as the
brightest and sharpest, although by far the raggedest and dirtiest,
singled out Job Gregson's son."

When Lady Ludlow finds out she makes it clear how much she
disapproves.


Chapter 5-8

The Gregson part of the story is kept in the background.


Chapter 9

Discussion between Lady Ludlow and Mr. Horner:

"I was in hopes, my lady, that you would have permitted me to bring
[Harry] up to act as a kind of clerk," said Mr. Horner, jerking out
his project abruptly.
"A what?" asked my lady, in infinite surprise.
"A kind of - of assistant, in the way of copying letters and doing up
accounts. He is already an excellent penman and very quick at
figures."
"Mr. Horner," said my lady, with dignity, "the son of a poacher and
vagabond ought never to have been able to copy letters relating to the
Hanbury estates"


Chapter 10

Mr. Gray keeps pressing the question of education.

"My lady, I cannot answer it to my conscience, if I allow the children
of this village to go on any longer the little heathens that they are.
I must do something to alter their condition."

The chapter ends with this news:

"Has your ladyship heard that Harry Gregson has fallen from a tree,
and broken his thigh-bone, and is like to be a cripple for life?"
"Harry Gregson! That black-eyed lad who read my letter? It all comes
from over-education!' "


Chapter 11

Mr. Gray rescues Harry

"But he lifted the poor lad, as if he had been a baby, I suppose, and
carried him up the great ledges that were formerly used for steps; and
laid him soft and easy on the wayside grass, and ran home and got help
and a door, and had him carried to his house, and laid on his bed."

"That poor lad, Harry Gregson, will never be able to earn his
livelihood in any active way, but will be lame for life.[..]
if Mr. Gray could but have his school, Mr. Horner and he think Harry
might be schoolmaster [..]
I wish your ladyship would fall into this plan; Mr. Gray has it so at
heart."

"As for Gregson the father, he - wild man of the woods, poacher,
tinker, jack-of-all-trades - was getting tamed by this kindness to his
child. Hitherto his hand had been against every man, as every man's
had been against him. That affair before the justice, which I told you
about, when Mr. Gray and even my lady had interested themselves to get
him released from unjust imprisonment, was the first bit of justice he
had ever met with: it attracted him to the people.."

"[Mr. Gray] had either never heard of [the Gregsons'] evil character,
or considered that it gave them all the more claims upon his Christian
care; and the end of it was, that this rough, untamed, strong giant of
a heathen was loyal slave to the weak, hectic, nervous,
self-distrustful parson.

Lady L starts to take a kindly interest in Harry; Mr. Gray becomes his
guardian.


Chapter 12

Harry pleads with Lady Ludlow:

"give Mr. Gray a school-house. Oh, father does so want Mr. Gray for to
have his wish! Father saw all the stones lying quarried and hewn on
Farmer Hale's land; Mr. Gray had paid for them all himself. And father
said he would work night and day, and little Tommy should carry
mortar, if the parson would let him, sooner than that he should be
fretted and frabbed as he was, with no one giving him a helping hand
or a kind word.""


Chapter 14

"...one day, much to my surprise, I heard that the "poaching,
tinkering vagabond," as the people used to call Gregson when I first
had come to live at Hanbury, had been appointed gamekeeper; Mr. Gray
standing godfather, as it were, to his trustworthiness.."

" they do talk of [Harry] being captain of his school [...] and going
to college after all! Harry Gregson the poacher's son! Well! to be
sure, we are living in strange times!"


Ending:

"As I dare say you know, the Reverend Henry Gregson is now vicar of
Hanbury, and his wife is the daughter of Mr. Gray and Miss Bessy."


=====


Thinking over your original question, I had a vague memory of a
nineteenth century novel with a poacher 'coming good' and helping to
build a school. I guessed it was by a writer who took social and
religious issues seriously and wondered if it might be by Gaskell, who
was an active partner in her husband's work as a Unitarian clergyman:

"Elizabeth Gaskell" poacher school
://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22elizabeth+gaskell%22+poacher+school&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

The text of the novel is online in two parts:

My Lady Ludlow Chapters 1-7
http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Ludlow-1.html

My Lady Ludlow Chapters 8-14
http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Ludlow-2.html

You can search the text by selecting 'edit', then 'find', then typing
in 'Gregson' or 'Gray' to find more of the vicar & poacher story.

There's a short biography of Gaskell here:
http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/landow/victorian/authors/gaskell/bio.html


I do hope this is helpful. It's been interesting for me, reminding me
of a novel I read long ago.
Please feel free to ask if anything needs further explanation, by
using the 'clarification' option.


Regards - Leli
coill-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars
I thank the Researcher very much for the answer.
While there does not to seem to be an exact answer to the 
precise questioin, the answer provided was very intriquing and
stimulatd my interest further.  Thank you.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Jane Austin novel
From: magnesium-ga on 17 May 2003 14:52 PDT
 
Wonderful sleuthing, leli-ga! The novel sounds most interesting. I
must try to find it next time I go on a book binge.

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