I have applied for a job as historian at a government facility. It
requires a degree in history OR a degree in a related field with 18
college credits of history. I have a journalism degree with 13 credits
under the HIST designation. However, I also have "History of" courses
in American Journalism (JOUR), Art (ART) and Jazz (MUSIC), as well as
"Political Analysis" (POL), which was centered in political history of
the U.S. In addition, I have years of experience writing historical
articles for publications. I won't even be considered for the position
unless I can justify a "reconsideration of rating decision" in a
letter to the head of the personnel dept. If I could cite accredited
universities that allow art history, history of journalism, and music
history credits to be applied toward a history degree (such as
transfer students might do), then I could easily write up a
justification. However, I'm having trouble getting appropriate search
results. Any other suggestions that could result in a viable
justification that might get these "history of" courses counted toward
the 18 credits is also acceptable.

Hi, wandlimb-ga:

The general topics you are looking for are "cross-listing" and
departmental credit for non-departmental courses.  A history related
course offered in one department's catalog, e.g. an Art History or
Political Science History course, may often be accepted toward
fulfilling a major requirement in a History Department.

See here for an outline of categories under which Harvard considers
(for credit in the History Department) courses taught in another
department:

[Credit in History Chart (Harvard)]
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~history/undergraduate/pdf/credit_chart.pdf

which shows in which cases the "Petition for Non-Departmental Credit"
is required (and in which it is not).  The petition form itself is
here:

[Petition for History Credit for Non-Departmental Courses]
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~history/undergraduate/pdf/history_credit_petition.pdf

You might bolster your argruments by referring to policies and
procedures of your own institution of higher learning.  Here's an
additional reference which espouses the cross-listing of history
related course offerings for credit in the Department of History:

[Dept. of History Strategic Objectives (Texas Tech U.)]
http://www.depts.ttu.edu/historydepartment/sp/obj3-1.html

"Establish closer linkages with the School of Art, the School of
Music, and the Department of Classical and Modern Languages and
Literatures that will allow for cross-listing of courses in art
history, music history, and ancient history."

And here's a similar statement from another university:

[Academic Plan for Dept. of History (U. of Wyo.)]

"We are already cooperating (through service on advisory faculty
committees and through cross listing) with Chicano Studies, American
Indian Studies, Religious Studies, and Women’s Studies. We are
committed to cross listing with Modern and Classical Languages in the
event that they succeed in hiring a second Classicist. We anticipate
cross listing at least one future course (the History of Organized
Crime) with the Administrative of Justice Program."

Many universities will require explicit cross-listing or pre-approval
for departmental credit (for a non-departmental course).  Policies
also differ for undergraduate student majors and for graduate
students.  See here for the UC Berkeley policies on course
cross-listings:

[Policies for Cross-listed Courses (UC Berkeley)]
http://academic-senate.berkeley.edu/committees/coci/crosslisted.html

On the other hand transfer students are usually allowed to petition
for approval of course credits taken at prior institutions, where the
course descriptions may be somewhat different from those at the
accepting institution.

In short the "politics" of cross-listing can become quite involved. 
If you wish to provide the name of your college or other
degree-granting institution, I'd be happy to help you document their
particular policies.

Another facet of your question is that in many smaller institutions
the departments of history and political science are one in the same,
and many of these will identify journalism as a target occupation for
their majors.

This is amply illustrated by a simple Google search:

[Google: "History and Political Science" department journalism]
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22History+and+Political+Science%22+department+journalism&btnG=Google+Search

At the University of Delaware (one of my old "stomping grounds"), the
Dept. of History administers a joint History/Journalism major (with
the Dept. of English):

[History Undergraduate Program Overview (U. of Delaware)]
http://www.udel.edu/History/hist/text/ugbody.html

Your request to reconsider the other coursework you describe as
history courses is therefore well within the academic practices of
mainstream American universities and colleges.

regards, mathtalk-ga


Search Strategy

Keywords: "cross-listing" history department
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22cross-listing%22+history+department&btnG=Google+Search

---

Request for Answer Clarification by wandlimb-ga on 09 May 2003 12:21 PDT

Thank you for providing me with the answers and arguments I was
looking for. This will help a lot -- if not get me a chance at the
job, then to at least prove a point to the powers that be.

There is a bit of a time crunch on this, but if you could find similar
information/policies about cross-listing for my own alma mater, Kent
State University in Ohio, there would be a good tip in it for you. I'd
like to get the letter arguing these points sent in on Monday. Much
appreciated!

---

Clarification of Answer by mathtalk-ga on 09 May 2003 13:37 PDT

Hi, wandlimb-ga:

I'm on it.  One other thought, if you are applying for a state job,
then I can also research the policies at the relevant state university
system.  State universities enjoy a variable amount of independence
from the rest of state administration policies, but it would be at the
least an indication of the thoroughness of your preparation.

regards, mathtalk

---

Request for Answer Clarification by wandlimb-ga on 09 May 2003 20:06 PDT

The job I am applying for is actually the federal government -- Air
Force. The base is located in California. So I'm not sure citing the
state university systems will help. Thanks, though! I think you've
given me a great shot at convincing them. Looking forward to whatever
you can get on KSU.

---

Clarification of Answer by mathtalk-ga on 10 May 2003 00:48 PDT

Hi, wandlimb-ga:

At your alma mater, Kent State University of Ohio, the connections
between the Dept. of History and courses taught outside the department
which emphasize the fruits and methods of historical research are most
clearly expressed in a number of interdisplinary programs.

Here's the "new" home page for their Dept. of History.  There are a
few kinks in navigating through its use of frames; I'll provide links
that circumvent these.

[Dept. of History Home Page (Kent State Univ.)]
http://dept.kent.edu/history/

There are several interdisciplinary programs "coordinated by faculty
members of the Department of History":

[Dept. of History Affiliate Programs (Kent State Univ.)]
http://dept.kent.edu/history/affiliates/programs.htm

African Studies
American Studies
Ancient, Medieval, and Renaissance Studies
British Studies
Hellenic Studies
North Atlantic Security Studies
Romanian Studies
Soviet and East European Studies

I think it may be helpful for you to drill down on the Program in
American Studies, which seems to have an especially close affinity
with the sorts of historically oriented courses taught outside the
Dept. of History that you may have taken.

[Program in American Studies: Faculty (Kent State Univ.)]
http://dept.kent.edu/AmericanStudies/faculty.htm

All three "core" faculty are members of the Dept. of History,
including Dr. Shirley Teresa Wajda who is the program coordinator (and
has also recently served as the undergraduate program advisor in the
Dept. of History).

The affiliate faculty is drawn from such departments as:

Dept. of Pan-African Studies
Dept. of English
Dept. of Criminal Justice
Dept. of Philosophy
Dept. of Architecture and Environmental Design

as well as additional Dept. of History faculty.  Overall 5 of the 11
faculty members identified with this program are in the Dept. of
History.

One can pursue an undergraduate major (BA program) or minor, or even a
Master of Arts degree in this program.  For simplicity let's just have
a look at the requirements for an undergraduate major:

[Req. for Major in Program of American Studies (Kent State Univ.)]
http://dept.kent.edu/AmericanStudies/major1.htm

The requirements include, besides a number of Dept. of History
courses, such coursework as:

from Dept. of Journalism and Mass Communication

JMC 40008: History of American Mass Communication

from Dept. of Music

MUS 42161: History of Jazz

from Dept. of Political Science

POL 40112: Politics and the Mass Media 

and from Dept. of Art

ART 42056: American Art 1607-1860

These appear to be similar if not identical to the courses you took.

The numbering of these courses indicate that they are all
upper-division undergraduate courses.  To my way of thinking, the fact
that these upper-divison courses are identified in the requirements of
this program speaks strongly of their historical content.  Credit
towards a degree program administered out of the Dept. of History is a
fairly conservative indication of their merit in the eyes of the
academic historians.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.  I noted that the Dept.
of Journalism (now Journalism and Mass Communication) at Kent State
was one of the first to be established in America, and so there it has
long enjoyed an independent status from either the Dept. of English or
the Dept. of History.

If your petition for reconsideration is accepted, I'd suggest asking
Dr. Wajda, the program coordinator mentioned above, to write you
concerning any planning documents she may have about the adoption of
this program by the Dept. of History, as this is likely to support
your claims.

regards, mathtalk-ga

Thank you for all your exceptional, detailed work. You have
practically written my justification for me. If I can't get my rating
changed with these arguments, it wasn't meant to be. Job well done!

Hey wandlimb,

Not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe somehow you can use
the idea that universities do grant "life" credits for experience
gained through work --

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=177373

-K~

wandlimb...

knowledgeseeker-ga's comment was my first thought upon reading
your question. I concur that an employer ought to consider
credit for life experience as readily as many universities.
This seems more credible, to me, than stretching the definition
of history courses, though you could mention that secondarily.
That's my opinion, anyway. Good Luck.

Well, the "life credit" argument would probably be a viable suggestion
if I was applying for any place other than a governmental agency. I've
already supplied six pages of KSAs (Knowledge, Skills,
Accomplishments), in addition to my resume and an application, so they
already have that info. No, they base my eligibility for the job on
these strict criteria, one of them being my having 18 credits of
history within my college transcripts. My only chance is to convince
them that ALL my history credits, if they fell under the History Dept.
or not, should be counted. They were, after all, proper college
classes that taught the history of something. It's ludicrous that,
just because they're not designated as HIST that they are not counting
them. Thank you for your suggestions, however.

wandlimb:
You may not be able to accomplish any of this by the time the
government announcement closes but, with your extensive experience,
you should easily be able to "test out" for the few additional credits
you need to meet the 18 required. Put CLEP (College Level Examination
Program) in your search engine for everything you need to know.
Good luck.
notekie