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Q: SOAP Standards ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: SOAP Standards
Category: Business and Money > eCommerce
Asked by: glennw-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 19 Apr 2002 02:15 PDT
Expires: 26 Apr 2002 02:15 PDT
Question ID: 2020
What are the details (and implications) regarding Microsoft & IBM owning the 
standards for Web servics SOAP protocols?
Answer  
Subject: Re: SOAP Standards
Answered By: gale-ga on 19 Apr 2002 15:02 PDT
 
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) has a section devoted to SOAP on its 
website (http://www.w3.org).

SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol)
http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/

with a link to the SOAP Submission Request presented to W3C by a group of 
companies in May of 2005:

http://www.w3c.org/Submission/2000/05/

The comment below (by zenephon-ga) has a review of that document. The key 
phrase in the document is "reasonable and non-discriminatory" (RAND).

Following SOAP submission, the W3C formed a committee that produced a Patent 
Policy Framework Draft
http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-patent-policy-20010816/.

This document outlines the controversy surrounding the internet patents issue, 
and suggests that there is a place for patents on the Web:

"Assessments of the impact of patents in the dynamics of the development of the 
Web and the operation of W3C vary, as do the prescriptions for change in W3C 
process. Some view a larger role for patents in the W3C standards-setting 
process as the inevitable, and certainly not fatal, sign that the industry is 
maturing. Just as the telecommunications and consumer electronics industries 
have flourished through standards based on patented, royalty-bearing 
technologies, so too will the Web, according to this view. Others view the rise 
of patents in the Web standards landscape with concern. Market dynamics that 
have lead to rapid innovation, worldwide proliferation of standards, and a high 
degree of entrepreneurial development may be threatened by barriers posed by 
even reasonable licensing terms. In this view, the highly decentralized Web 
industry structure is so unlike the industries in which patents play a large 
role, that the reliance on licensing models from those industries is considered 
inappropriate.
Even with differing points of view on the likely impact of patents on Web 
standards, the PPWG has reached some consensus recommendations.
Consensus Points:
Importance of interoperability for core infrastructure, lower down the stack: 
Preservation of interoperability and global consensus on core Web 
infrastructure is of critical importance. So it is especially important that 
the Recommendations covering lower-layer infrastructure be implementable on an 
RF basis. Recommendations addressing higher-level services toward the 
application layer may have a higher tolerance for RAND terms. 
Better disclosure: A clear process, to which Members are committed and/or bound 
to ensure better disclosure of essential patents as a condition of Membership, 
is vital. 
Access for general public (not just Members): Licensing terms for essential 
technology should be available on a non-discriminatory basis to W3C Members and 
non-Members alike. 
Working Group flexibility: One patent licensing framework may not be 
appropriate to every W3C Working Group. Therefore, Working Groups should have 
flexibility to specify minimum licensing terms as part of their work. These 
intellectual property rights requirements should then become the basis for 
Advisory Committee and Director review of the resulting specification. 
"

A lively discussion followed on the www-patentpolicy-comment list, an official 
W3C list for public discussion of patent issues:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-
comment/2001Oct/subject.html#1242


where most of the posters were opposed to the idea of proprietary internet 
standards and thought that the implications would be negative and even 
catastrophic.

Here are three sample comments.


http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct/0992.html
(author: Brent J. Nordquist)
An examination of the history of networking
and the Internet makes one trend very clear:  that protocols and data
formats founded in open, unencumbered standards have flourished and
endured over decades, while proprietary and patented approaches (while
they may spring up and be popular at first) ultimately decay and vanish.  
(The contrast of TCP/IP with NetBEUI, IPX, and AppleTalk is the most
striking example of this truth in the networking sphere.)
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-
comment/2001Oct/0989.html
(author: Eric Montgomery)
I believe that the exclusive use of a "royalty-free" (RF) licensing
model is in the best interests of the Internet community, and that
RAND licensing would always necessarily exclude some would-be
implementors, especially among open source and free software
developers.

I would like to state that I am firmly OPPOSED to the idea of allowing
"proprietary" standards.  To begin with, this seems to me to be a very big
contradiction in and of itself.  How can something be a "standard" if only
one entity owns it and can deny its use to people based on whatever terms
they see fit?   The internet was built upon open protocols and open
standards.  Because they were open and usable by everyone, these standards
were agreed upon by everyone which allowed the internet to grow as it did in
the first place.  With "proprietary" standards you'll have people throwing
patents all over everything they get their hands on with numerous patents
for similar services and protocols.  I believe that this will stifle the
overall acceptance of any given patented "standard" because different groups
will have economic reasons for using a their own standards regardless of
their actual effectiveness.  The end result of this is a "not so standard"
standard that is judged more for its economic quality to the individual,
rather than its efficiency, robustness, and overall usability.  Somehow I
just don't see this as being a good thing."

The W3C then published a response to 
Response to Public Comments on the W3C Patent Policy Framework Working Draft
http://www.w3.org/2001/10/patent-response.html,

stating that there is place for both royalty-free and RAND licensing modes, 
that RAND licensing is commong among standards organizations, and that the W3C 
is only trying to answer this question:

" In a world where patents exist and may be used to constrain conformance to 
standards, how should W3C best proceed in order to accomplish its mission?"

One of the more recent voices in the debate comes from the ZDNET magazine:

http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2861123,00.html
"IBM, Microsoft plot Net takeover", by David Berlind, April 11, 2002

"According to documents on the W3C's Web site, IBM and Microsoft not only own 
intellectual property within specific Web services protocols, but also have no 
intentions of relinquishing their IP rights to those protocols should they 
become standards. The documents indicate that the two companies are currently 
maintaining their rights to pursue a reasonable and non-discriminatory (RAND) 
licensing framework as opposed to a royalty-free-based framework. The RAND 
framework is widely acknowledged as the one that keeps a vendor's options open 
in terms of being able to charge content developers and Internet users a 
royalty for usage of relevant intellectual property."

There is a thread on Slashdot (http://www.slashdot.org), devoted to that 
article:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/13/057217&mode=thread

predicting nothing but a grim future for proprietary standards:

This posting (by Get Behind the Mule on Saturday April 13) represents the 
Slashdot majority opinion: "If standards for web services are not royalty-free, 
then there will be no such thing within a few years. Or perhaps the idea of web 
services will survive on the basis of other, royalty-free protocols, but SOAP 
and WDSL and other patented technologies will be a footnote in history. Let IBM 
and M$ go ahead if they want to kill off their own inventions, it really 
doesn't bother me a bit."

Some useful Google searches:
soap standards microsoft ibm
soap rand license OR licensing

Clarification of Answer by gale-ga on 19 Apr 2002 15:03 PDT
In my answer, "three sample comments" should read "two sample comments".

Clarification of Answer by gale-ga on 19 Apr 2002 15:12 PDT
See also two interesting articles on RAND licensing in The Register magazine:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/21977.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/22214.html
Comments  
Subject: Re: SOAP Standards
From: zenephon-ga on 19 Apr 2002 06:18 PDT
 
The definitive source of such information is the website of the World Wide Web 
Consortium (W3C) at http://www.w3c.org/

Under the 'SOAP' section you can find a link 
(http://www.w3c.org/Submission/2000/05/) to the original submission for the 
standard from IBM, Microsoft, and a number of other companies.

Each of the submitting parties has made a declaration concerning the 
intellectual property rights relating to the [then proposed] standard.  
Microsoft's, for instance, starts:

"Microsoft hereby grants to the W3C, a perpetual, nonexclusive, non-
sublicensable, non assignable, royalty-free, world-wide right and license under 
any Microsoft copyrights in this contribution to copy, publish and distribute 
the contribution, as well as a right and license of the same scope to any 
derivative works prepared by the W3C and based on, or incorporating all or part 
of the contribution.

Microsoft further agrees that, upon adoption of this contribution as a 
Standard, Microsoft will grant to any party a royalty-free license on other 
reasonable and non-discriminatory terms under applicable Microsoft intellectual 
property rights to implement and use the technology proposed in this 
contribution in products that comply with the Standard but only for the purpose 
of complying with the Standard. Microsoft expressly reserves all other rights 
it may have in the material and subject matter of this contribution. The 
licensing commitments made hereunder do not include any license for 
implementation of other published specifications developed elsewhere but 
referred to in this contribution."

Some of the other parties have been less 'generous'.  IBM, for instance, says:

"IBM may own patents or patent applications which apply to the SOAP 
specification being submitted to the W3C. If implementation of a W3C standard 
based on the SOAP specification requires the use of IBM patents, IBM will 
grant, upon written request, a non-exclusive license under such patents on 
reasonable and non-discriminatory terms."

But the bottom line is that they all seem to have undertaken not to exploit 
their original IPR unreasonably.

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