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Q: hornets, wasps and biting insects ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: hornets, wasps and biting insects
Category: Family and Home > Home
Asked by: disanti-ga
List Price: $40.00
Posted: 11 May 2003 09:39 PDT
Expires: 10 Jun 2003 09:39 PDT
Question ID: 202362
I have a 20'x40'swimming pool with a 1400 square foot wood deck
surrounding the pool. The decking is at ground level sitting on a
sunken frame of two by tens.

Problem is hornets. They build their nests at different locations
under the wood decking. They fly between the spacing between the
boards and into the space under the deck boards and build nests under
the decking boards and in-between the two by tens.

I use a wasp spray to try to eliminate them. As soon as I eliminate
one nest, they build two more new nests.

I have a great deal of young people that use the pool. (Many young
children) Some times the way you find the nest is when someone is
bitten.

I do not want to take up the deck boards to eliminate the hornets.
They would just be back in a week.

I need a process, procedure any solution that will solve the problem.
Answer  
Subject: Re: hornets, wasps and biting insects
Answered By: clouseau-ga on 11 May 2003 10:41 PDT
 
Hello disanti,

Thank you for your question.

What an unpleasant predicament!

You did not mention where you are located and some of the pests you
mention have different varieties in different locations. As mentioned
on this cached page at Google on Hornets, Wasps and Yellow Jackets:

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:LTsH943JCfMJ:www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/staff/sprwasps.html+eliminating+hornets&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"...Wasps and hornets appear as the temperatures get warmer. The types
we most often encounter here in North Carolina include Yellow Jackets
and Bald Faced Hornets, European Hornets, Mud-daubers, and Paper
Wasps...

...Yellowjacket nests reach peak populations in early fall before
frost. The black and yellow-striped workers frantically search for
proteins and carbohydrates to feed hungry larvae. Expect them to be a
persistent annoyance during outdoor sports events and picnics. Workers
are not defensive unless grasped or struck. Avoid getting close to any
nest entrances in the landscape or in structures, as yellowjackets are
quite defensive of the nest and can inflict serious stings.
Yellowjackets persist in North Carolina into November....

...If hornets build a nest in the middle of a heavy traffic area, such
as by the sliding glass doors to your deck or in a shrub near the back
steps, it needs to be eliminated. But if the nest is out of the way
and poses few problems, it is better to leave them alone so they can
destroy your garden pests.

Hornets see by light intensity, so the best time to apply any
pesticide to a troublesome nest is at dusk, just before dark. That way
you can see the nest, but the hornets will have trouble seeing you.
Several pre-mixed commercial applications are packaged in cans that
spray for 15 to 20 feet. Always read and follow all label directions
on any pesticide container. Be sure to operate on the buddy system;
have someone stand at a distance watching in case you need
help.Commercial pest control companies will also come destroy the nest
if you don't want to try it yourself..."


So, assuming what you really have are Hornets, this is good
information. This author continues on a linked page:

"...Control is best achieved by applying a pesticide directly into the
nest opening. This can be done at anytime of the day, but near dusk,
most of the wasps are more likely to be inside the nest. You can use
any of the aerosol "Wasp & Hornet" sprays that propel insecticide in a
stream about 10-12 feet. Direct the spray into the nest opening and
then move away from the area in case any of the wasps emerge from the
nest. You may need to be repeat the treatment on the following
evening.

Long sleeved shirt and long pants may be worn when spraying to make
the applicator feel more at ease.

Do not hold a lit flashlight or stand near car headlights or other
lights. Emerging wasps may be attracted in that direction and sting
anyone nearby.

Do not pour gasoline or petroleum down a nest hole. This is extremely
hazardous and environmentally unsound..."

 
PestProducts.com talks a bit about eliminating Hornets and Wasps:
http://www.pestproducts.com/hornetelimination.htm

"Treat the hornet nest as late in the evening as possible.  Remember
that all wasps, hornets and bees are at rest when it is dark.  When it
is dark, not only will all the hornets be in the nest for you to
exterminate (instead of foraging for food some distance away) , you
will also be at far less risk of being stung by angry wasps and
hornets.  No one wants to treat a hornets' nest with hornets
dive-bombing their head!  When approaching the nest, move slowly so as
not to disturb the sleeping pests.  If eliminating the nest in late
evening is not possible (forcing you to work in broad daylight), avoid
crossing the obvious flight path.  You also do not want to cast a
shadow across the nest while you work.

For initial "knockdown" or quick kill, use a professional Wasp Freeze.
 This will enable you to attack the nest from a distance or reach
higher areas without the use of a ladder.  The wasp freeze should
first be directed at the entrance of the nest to eliminate any guard
wasps.  Next, thoroughly soak the remainder of the nest.  For the
average size nest (or larger) you will need two cans of Wasp Freeze. 
These types of aerosol are not very expensive and you do not want to
run out of product in the middle of the job!

You can now finish the hornet elimination.  This is best done using
Drione Dust or Delta Dust.  Either one of these products will do an
excellent job but Drione Dust is best.  If you are in a humid
environment, Delta Dust is best.  Use a Crusader Duster to apply the
material so that you are sure that all galleries have been penetrated.
 Ease the tip of your Crusader Duster   into the entrance and quickly
squeeze three or four times.  This will send the pesticide dust far
into the galleries, where it will remain long enough  to kill all
hornets...

And they particularly note:

***********************************************************

...In some areas (around pool decks, playground equipment, under the
eaves of homes and buildings) wasps and hornets can be an annual,
on-going reoccurrence.  To help prevent reinfestation in these areas,
spray with wettable powders such as Cynoff WP or Demon WP on a regular
basis.  This preventative pest control measure will also take care of
spiders, scorpions, ants, roaches, silverfish and other invading pests
that like to share your home..."

***********************************************************

You can follow the hyperlinks on the page above to read about their
products, which appear to be more industrial strength than those found
at your local Home Depot.


E-Bug.net echoes the advice of the sites quoted above:
http://www.e-bug.net/bee/honeybees.shtml

They recommend the exact techniques and products as PestProducts.


HomeSteadingToday.com talks about trapping Yellow Jackets, which
appear to be smaller kin of the Hornet. The technique may be helpful
for you as well:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/homestead/Countryside/Wc957480f7dafa.htm

"TRAPPING YELLOW JACKETS 

There are several inexpensive non-toxic bait traps available for
yellow jacket control, including the Wasp Trap, the Oak Stump Farm
"Yellow Jacket" Wasp Trap and the Yellow Jacket Inn. Visit your nearby
garden center or check out a gardening mail order catalog to
investigate the availability of these traps.

Traps should be placed around the perimeter of human recreational
areas well in advance of outdoor activities. Traps may be placed along
side dumpsters or restaurant loading docks. Most trap directions call
for a reservoir to be filled with an attractant such as sugar water.
Exhausted yellow jackets fall into the liquid and drown.

Traps should be serviced daily to remove dead insects because the odor
can become very offensive. Wash the trap with soap and water after
several days use. Monitor the traps attractiveness to beneficial
insects such as honey bees and alter the bait if necessary. Raw
bologna has proven to be a very successful yellow jacket bait and it
does not attract beneficial insects.

Homemade Traps: A crude yellow jacket trap is made by hanging a raw
fish or piece of liver (slightly diced on the exterior) by string
about 1 to 2 inches above a container of detergent and water. The
detergent will act as a wetting agent and eliminate surface tension
which will improve trap efficiency. Foraging yellow jackets are
attracted to the raw meat and will often become overloaded with food
and fall into the water and drown. This method of yellow jacket
control is not as efficient as nest elimination but it may help reduce
the population to acceptable levels..."



The University of Illinois also addresses homemade traps:
http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/winnebago/mgqa/000923.html

"Q: My garden is full of wasps, bees, and hornets right now, and I
can't even get out to pick my raspberries! What should I do? Stung, in
Winnebago

A: You have my sympathy. Wasp and hornet populations are always at
their highest this time of year as they prepare for winter, but it
seems worse this year than usual. In our own garden we too are seeing
higher populations, and more diversity in species, than I recall
having witnessed before. While some of these are beautiful and
fascinating to look at (from a respectable distance!), it is
disconcerting to try to pick raspberries from bushes that are
populated with Yellow Jackets, Great Golden Diggers, Sweat Bees,
Cicada Killers, and Bald-faced Hornets, all determined to get to that
raspberry before you do...

...Yellow Jackets, paper wasps, and hornets are more common. If you
can locate their nesting sites, you can follow the usual elimination
procedure—go out after nightfall (when they are all back in the nest),
and spray one of the commercially available wasp and hornet killers
into and around the entrance hole. You may need to repeat this
procedure a few days later, for complete control.

My wife and I have found homemade traps to be useful in reducing, but
not eliminating, the abundance of wasps and hornets in the garden. Cut
the top third off empty plastic soft-drink or water bottles, and with
the cap removed, invert that piece into the bottom portion of the
bottle. Fasten the cut edges with tape (the usual handyman's duct tape
works well!), put a sugar/water solution (about one part sugar, four
parts water) into the bottle, leaving a gap between the top of the
liquid and the inverted spout, and hang or nail the traps up around
the area you wish to protect. The insects will crawl down the slope,
seeking the sugar water, and then drown.

You will need to monitor the traps, of course, so that if rainfall or
an accumulation of trapped insects brings the liquid up to the
inverted spout, the liquid level is adjusted..."



So, it appears that part of the problem you are having is in not
having access to the entrances to the nests as they are below your
decking. And perhaps, you are not using chemicals of sufficient
industrial strength.

If you can get to the entrances, you might try the products listed
above. If you can identify what is attracting these pests, such as
fruit or some other sweet food source, you might try eliminating or
minimizing the objects of their desire. And you can try trapping to
minimize their populations.

Unfortunately, if these measures do not work, you may be forced to
pull up decking to gain better access to this problem. You might wish
to consult pest control companies in your area that will usually be
familiar with the particular critters and problems that are native to
your area.


Professional Exterminators such as Critter Ridders mention:
http://www.critterridders.com/wasp_yellowjackets.htm


"Don't Let Yellowjackets Set Up A Sting Operation In Your Home 

 (Courtesy of NPMA)
 
Yellowjackets get their name from their yellow-and-back striped color
patterns. There are about 16 species throughout the U.S. They are
generally considered to be beneficial because they mainly eat other
insects, many of which are pests. They are social, and live in
colonies, usually making a nest of "paper," usually in underground
cavities, but sometimes in bushes or wall voids or attics of
buildings. Colony size may vary from a few dozen to several thousand
worker wasps. Nest may contain from 300 to over 100,000 cells. Only
fertilized queens live over the winter in most species.

Yellowjackets are only a problem when people get close to their nest
entrance without knowing it. These wasps can sting repeatedly, and
become very aggressive when defending their nest. Their sting is
usually very painful and humans can develop a true allergy to their
venom. Any later sting can be life threatening. The presence of these
or any other stinging pest is cause for immediate concern and
professional assistance  from the Critter Ridders  & should be sought
at once.

Control of yellow jackets should only be undertaken by properly
trained and equipped professional pest management personnel. Control
is best done at night or late evening. The German Yellowjacket and the
Western Yellowjacket often nests in building, and the Aerial
Yellowjacket often attaches its nests to bushes or buildings. As nests
in buildings are expanded, the Yellowjackets often chew through into
living or work areas, posing a direct threat to occupants. After a
pest technician has controlled all the adult insects from a nest in a
building, the nest itself should be removed as completely as possible.
If not, it may cause odor problems or attract carpet beetles which
often become a secondary pest.

Cost for this service is usually $188.00 and up. Guaranteed for 6
months..."


They do offer commercial traps for do-it-yourselfer's here:
http://www.critterridders.com/advantage.htm



The Division of Animal Control in Denver says this about yellow
jackets, wasps and hornets:
http://www.denvergov.org/AnimalControl/template21692.asp

"...Unless wasps, hornets, and yellow jackets become a threat we urge
you to leave them alone. They play an important role in the ecological
balance of your backyard, neighborhood and local community.

Yellowjackets and hornets are outside the nest during the daylight
hours. Nearly the entire colony is in the nest during the evening and
nighttime hours, although some workers may be stranded away from the
nest and will not return until morning. Control measures for hornets
and yellowjackets should be attempted during the nighttime hours when
the whole colony is in or on the nest. Paper wasps (Polistes spp.) can
usually be treated during the daytime, because these wasps are not as
aggressive in their nest protection behavior as hornets and
yellowjackets.

There are many insecticides labeled for controlling wasps, when
applied into or onto the nest. The difficulty involves making the
treatment without being stung. If applications must be made during the
day, protective equipment such as boots, heavy coveralls, veiled
headwear, and heavy gloves should be worn. This equipment should be
carefully secured in such a fashion that wasps can not slip under
cuffs or other areas of the clothing. Use plenty of masking tape
wrapped around the bottoms of pant legs and sleeves and around the
collar.

For Polistes nests, an aerosol spray of one of the many fast-acting
wasp killer aerosols will quickly kill all workers present on the
nests. After the colony has been killed with the initial insecticide
application, the nest should be scraped or knocked down and removed so
as not to attract dermestid beetles at some later time, and to keep
wasp pupae from possibly reestablishing the worker force. After the
nests are removed, be sure that a spray or dust residue of a residual
insecticide is left in the nest area to ensure that any worker wasps
not present at the time of initial treatment will be killed later.

The most difficult problems in wasp control are generally those that
involve large aerial nests of yellowjackets or bald-faced hornets and
ground or structural nests of yellowjackets. Control of aerial nests
of hornets and yellowjackets should be attempted only while wearing a
full set of protective equipment. A liberal amount of material should
usually be applied, up to one large can of aerosol wasp killer. Direct
this spray into the hole at the bottom of the nest, being careful not
to break open the side of the nest. Within a few hours, or certainly
by the next day, all the colony members should be killed by this
initial application. Before nest removal on the next day, a few
seconds of aerosol spray should be directed into the nest entrance to
be certain all wasps have been killed. The nest can then be removed,
if possible.

Control of ground-nesting yellowjacket nests is best done at night for
safety reasons. The nest entrance should be located during the daytime
and marked in some way for easy and precise location in the evening.
When the nest is approached at night, it is a good idea to have the
available light (spotlight or flashlight) set and focused on the nest
from a distance, off to the side. Do not hold it in your hand, because
it may attract attacking workers. It is safest to wear protective
clothing. Approach the nest slowly and carefully. The quickest and
surest way to kill the colony is to have a hand duster, loaded with
carbaryl or bendiocarb dust and puff several large puffs of dust
directly into the hole. Then apply more dust onto the area around the
entrance hole. This should totally kill the colony by the end of the
next day. If you do not have a hand duster, an empty dish soap squeeze
bottle can be used. Be sure the bottle is clean and dry before adding
the dust. Only fill the bottle half full, then shake it up to mix air
and dust just before puffing into the entrance. Dust will travel
deeper into the void, in the ground or wall, than will an aerosol wasp
killer.

Cicada killers can be efficiently controlled by treatment with liquid
insecticidal lawn sprays. Treat the ground area where the wasps are
burrowing. Also, each burrow can be individually dusted with a dust
formulation to control the wasps.

Mud daubers are not aggressive about defending nests under
construction. However, protective clothing should be worn. A residual
insecticide liquid or dust application to the mud nests and the
surfaces in the immediate area will provide effective control. Then,
scrape away and remove the nests, if possible.

If you are allergic or hypersensitive to wasp or bee stings you should
not attempt to control these insects and should call a professional
pest control company. Or if you do not have the proper equipment call
a professional pest control company..."


So, you can see that the advice available is very consistent on these
critters. It does seem that your public agencies, such as Animal
Control, may be helpful to you in your area and may offer advice or
products. My local Animal Control was a great benefit to me when I
found rats living in my Weber Barbecue!! They provided trap
construction diagrams and bait and advice on how to assure safety for
my pets. They were gone in two weeks!


Finally, Victor Pest talks about controlling these pest without
poisons:
http://www.victorpest.com/wasp_home.htm


VICTORŽ POISON-FREEŽ Wasp & Hornet Killer
The only patented POISON-FREEŽ formula available. Kills wasps,
hornets, and yellow jackets in seconds. 15 foot spray does not stain
carpets, floors, or vinyl siding. One application lasts 4 weeks.
Nozzle sprays easily in corners and tight spaces. Contains: Mint Oil,
Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Water, and Carbon Dioxide.

VictorŽ Yellow Jacket Traps
Can be used indoors and outdoors. Natural bait contains carbohydrates
and protein. Bait attractant works for all species of yellow jackets.
Bait can be used in all geographic regions. Available in packs of 1 or
2. Bait comes with the traps and is also sold separately.

SaferŽ Disposable Yellow Jacket Trap
No pesticides. A pheromonal lure attracts and traps wasps and yellow
jackets. Contents are food attractant. Trap is effective for 2-3
weeks.

There are several more on this page. Although I have no way of knowing
their effectiveness other than their advertising, I am always tempted
to try non-poisonous solutions first and resort to bigger guns if the
situation does not improve.

Other links of interest:

University of Kentucky, Entomology
http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/entfacts/struct/ef620.htm

Canada Health - Wasps
http://www.wasps.ca/

Consumer Specialty Products - Wasps and Bees
http://www.aboutbugsbugsbugs.com/wasps/control.htm

Pesticides News - Wasp Control, Least Toxic Options
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/homepest/Wasp.htm


Search Strategy:

eliminating hornets
control +wasps OR hornets OR "yellow jackets"


I trust my research has provided you with valuable information about
these pests. If a link above should fail to work or anything require
further explanation or research, please do post a Request for
Clarification prior to rating the answer and closing the question and
I will be pleased to assist further.

Best of luck ridding your area of these pests!

Regards,

-=clouseau=-

Request for Answer Clarification by disanti-ga on 12 May 2003 14:29 PDT
I am located in Western Pennsylvania.

Looking for some sort of spray or chemical that can be applied under
the deck, between the cracks that will eliminate the hornets. You can
not see the nests, they under the decking. Something that can be
applied (I assume sprayed) between the cracks of the deck that will
expand under the decking to reach the nests. Even if I must apply it
every few weeks or once a month that’s ok, if the application does not
cost an arm and a leg to apply.

I am going to Canada fishing for the next two weeks, leaving Friday I
would like to have a solution by then if possible?

Clarification of Answer by clouseau-ga on 12 May 2003 14:45 PDT
Hello again disanti,

Have you investigated all of the links above?

As you can see, the most common and most effective means of
eliminating these requires access to the entrance of the nest. Without
that, you might have success with some of the products that require
dusting and wetting, however, even these recommend first having access
to the nest's entrance.

You say:

"...Looking for some sort of spray or chemical that can be applied
under the deck, between the cracks that will eliminate the
hornets...."


As I'm sure you have read above, without pulling up deck boards and
eliminating the problem once and for all, you may experience
continuing reinfestations. I'm afraid a chemical that will seek the
entrance and be effective does not seem to yet exist, as the experts I
have cited above confirm.

I would speak with my local animal control department for their
advice, call a professional exterminator or two to learn of their
proposed treatments and set traps to provide some measure of relief
while investigating all of your options. Your local professionals may
have equipment that could reach the nest entrances without having to
pull up decking and it appears that their treatments are not
prohibitively costly.

As a spray that is not directed toward the entrance of nest does not
seem to be either available or effective, is there any other
information I might be able to provide?

Best of luck,

-=clouseau=-
Comments  
Subject: Re: hornets, wasps and biting insects
From: sammy128-ga on 11 May 2003 16:22 PDT
 
The best and cheapest answer I found, (I had a similar problem) was
creosate, the insects hated it. Soak the decking in creosate, it does
take a while to dry, and the smell can be off-putting to some. But I
coated the underside, so people could still walk on it without getting
their feet soaked in the stuff.

I do it every early summer/spring (sometimes twice) and now have no
trouble with insects at all.

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