Vipower sells a very interesting product...
http://www.vipower.com/product/MobileRack/1fan_mobile_rack/vp_10lsf_hp/vp_10lsf_hp_main.htm
...but what competition do they have?
QUESTION 1: Please find other products (for Windows XP Pro) like the
Vipower I listed above.
NOTE: Many companies sell so-called "hot swap/removable" IDE drive
bays, but if you remove the HD from the system while it's powered up,
Windows will crash.
QUESTION 2: Will certain higher-end IDE controllers allow me to remove
the HD from the run-of-the-mill so-called "hot swap/removable" bays,
even while the system is powered up?
NOTE: This question is regarding data-only drives, not any system
partitions. |
Clarification of Question by
donphiltrodt-ga
on
13 May 2003 17:47 PDT
I said "...Windows will crash." I should clarify.
Windows will just hang, waiting for the drive. Moreover, Windows
seems entirely unprepared to see a hard drive "disappear".
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
13 May 2003 22:49 PDT
donphiltrodt...
Since the link you provided is clear on two things:
"the primary drive, hard drive C:, cannot be swapped;
the computer would shut down. Hot Swapping can be used
with any drive(s) on the secondary IDE channel"
and:
"Swap Manager software lets you exchange IDE/ATAPI drives
in a desktop computer without powering down, rebooting,
or exiting applications"
...it seems clear that the software is simply allowing
the secondary IDE to interface with Windows in the same
manner as any 'removable media', such as a ZIP drive.
Windows can easily handle the removal and addition of
such drives without problems, providing that a drive
letter has been assigned to them. Given this, the main
advantage of hot swapping would be that you can do this
with large hard drives in addition to the limited sized
media of other removable drives. This would make it easy
to transfer very large databases from one PC to another
without powering either down.
The other 'removable' drive bays that I'm familiar with
are only designed for allowing a quick swap of the hard
drive without opening up the tower, but require that the
computer be turned off to allow this. With these, you
can swap the C drive on the primary IDE and boot up to
a completely different drive/OS. This is not the same
as 'hot swapping'.
Assuming that the above makes sense to you, would you like to
rephrase your question?
|
Clarification of Question by
donphiltrodt-ga
on
14 May 2003 01:16 PDT
Clarification (hopefully)...
I'm looking for true hot-swap (IE, no power-down required to swap
drives) removable IDE bays... just like Vipower makes.
I could just buy a Vipower, but I'd like to see if other companies
offer the same no-power-down-required feature.
I'm NOT interested in the, as you say, "other 'removable' drive bays".
______
If you need further clarification, please feel free to ask. If
needed, indicate specifically what you find ambiguous.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
14 May 2003 13:29 PDT
donphiltrodt...
QUESTION 2 is giving me a problem. I'm not personally aware,
nor did my searches reveal, any connection between 'higher-end
IDE controllers' and the ability to 'hot swap' using either
'run-of-the-mill' removable bays or hot swap bays. What I found
is that higher end IDE controllers are useful for RAID
configurations (Redundant Arrays of Inexpensive/Independent Disks).
But such configurations are for stability and redundancy, and
not for 'hot swapping'. Unless you can point me to an example
of a 'higher end IDE controller' in conjunction with hot swapping,
I'm lost on this part.
As for Vipower's competition, there are some that I found, but
the data on the less expensive models is vague. One cheaper
model does not list compatibility for WIN XP, and another
does not clarify that 'hot swapping' as used by them does
not involve turning off the computer.
I only found one comparable device, which probably sells for
about the same as the Vipower unit (though I don't see a price
on the Vipower page), at $200.
I have all of the above compiled into an answer, but wasn't
certain it would suit your requirements without addressing
QUESTION 2.
Let me know what you think.
sublime1-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
donphiltrodt-ga
on
14 May 2003 14:12 PDT
Thanks for the clarification. The ability to hot-swap* a drive in a
RAID is commonplace, at least in the SCA and SCSI realm.
(* "Hot-swap", by definition, means that powering down is unnecessary.
I just wish marketers would adhere to it.)
Since...
--) "hot-swapabiltiy" (no power-down) is absolutely imperative for
high-availability systems and
--) RAIDs are required for high-availability systems and
--) some high-availability systems don't warrant the cost of SCSI
...therefore...
--) there's got to be a way for an IDE HD to be installed as a true
hot-swappable drive (tray included) in an IDE storage subsystem.
--) Indeed, such exists:
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/go.dll/-s/fp_70281
What I don't know is...
--) Is there a way to have IDE hot-swapability for drives NOT in a
RAID?
--) If so, what combination of a)IDE controller and b) removeable
drive tray offer hot-swapability (no powerdown), not just removability
(powerdown required).
--) Can IDE hot-swapability (either inside or outside the context of a
RAID array and/or controller) be obtained for cheaper than the
prohibitively expensive Promise/Superswap solution? (Like Vipower for
example: http://www.audioexchange.com/vipmobhotswa.html)
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
14 May 2003 17:47 PDT
donphiltrodt...
Now that I see the price for the Vipower on your last link:
http://www.audioexchange.com/vipmobhotswa.html
...I can absolutely state that nothing I found comes
anywhere near beating that price, assuming that the Swap
Manager software comes with the 10LSPF-HP.
Here's what I did find (note the irony of the first
sentence, before I knew the price of the 10LSPF-HP:
==================================================
Though I didn't see a price on the Vipower unit, I would
guess that it is on the higher end of the scale, since it
incorporates several high-end features not found on less
expensive units. These include the compatibility software,
password protection, key lock, cooling fan and so on.
Such feature-rich units are relatively expensive, such as
the Granite Digital FIREVue™ FireWire / IDE Hot - Swap
Drive Systems, on sale for $199:
http://www.granitedigital.com/catalog/pg26_firewireidehotswapdrive.htm
Being a firewire device, the transfer rate is 40MB/sec.
Agaté Technologies, according to the 1997 press release on
their site (linked below) was the first to introduce this
concept with their Hot Data Shuttle, which can still be
obtained at this link, for only $49.95:
http://www.agatetech.com/products_shuttle.html
Press release:
http://www.agatetech.com/news/hotdata111798.htm
This is a barebones product without any of the fancier
features, and they only cite compatibility for
Windows 98/SE/ME. Additionally, their ratings on
the Reseller Ratings website indicate that, while
users found Agaté Technologies helpful in 1999,
as of 11/'02, they are very difficult to contact.
A good compromise seems to exist in this next unit,
the Vision Black ATA100/133 IDE Hot Swap Drive Tray
from Vision Computers, whose homepage is here:
http://www.visioncomputers.com/
While I couldn't find the unit on their website,
it is available from Tiger Direct for $59.99,
and features a keylock and 2 cooling fans:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=282214&Sku=V133-2024&SRCCODE=NEXTAG
The ad copy states:
"Designed for ALL VisionMan Server & Gamer PC's with
an IDE Interface.", though I can't see why it wouldn't
work with any PC with an IDE interface. As far as true
hot swapping capabilities, it is not clearly stated that
you need not power down the PC to trade drives.
Given the vague descriptions and poor customer service
in relation to the two lower-priced units, I'd probably
go with the Vipower or the Granite Digital units.
==================================================
So I'd say you've found a winner with the Vipower.
If you want the best prices on computer gear, track
what you want at PriceWatch.com:
http://www.pricewatch.com/
However, I didn't find either the 10LSPF-HP or the
SuperSwap 1000 there.
I don't know that I can help you any further.
sublime1-ga
Searches done, via Google:
"hot swap" IDE -server -raid -rack -rackmount
://www.google.com/search?q=%22hot+swap%22+IDE+-server+-raid+-rack+-rackmount
"hot data shuttle"
://www.google.com/search?q=%22hot+data+shuttle%22
"vision computers"
://www.google.com/search?q=%22vision+computers%22
|
Clarification of Question by
donphiltrodt-ga
on
14 May 2003 18:17 PDT
Thanks for the help.
Yeah, it's a poorly defined feature with a lot of uncertainty. I had
no idea it was so difficult to purchase a low-cost hot-swap storage
subsystem.
Please submit your clarification as an answer and I'll rate it at 4,
mainly because your questions definitely helped me. It turned out
tougher than we both thought I guess. :-/ Thanks.
|
donphiltrodt...
Thanks for honoring my efforts when you could have just
cancelled the question. Such quality of character is a
a privelege to experience.
Per your request, here, again, is the content of my last
clarification:
Now that I see the price for the Vipower on your last link:
http://www.audioexchange.com/vipmobhotswa.html
...I can absolutely state that nothing I found comes
anywhere near beating that price, assuming that the Swap
Manager software comes with the 10LSPF-HP.
Here's what I did find (note the irony of the first
sentence, before I knew the price of the 10LSPF-HP:
==================================================
Though I didn't see a price on the Vipower unit, I would
guess that it is on the higher end of the scale, since it
incorporates several high-end features not found on less
expensive units. These include the compatibility software,
password protection, key lock, cooling fan and so on.
Such feature-rich units are relatively expensive, such as
the Granite Digital FIREVue™ FireWire / IDE Hot - Swap
Drive Systems, on sale for $199:
http://www.granitedigital.com/catalog/pg26_firewireidehotswapdrive.htm
Being a firewire device, the transfer rate is 40MB/sec.
Agaté Technologies, according to the 1997 press release on
their site (linked below) was the first to introduce this
concept with their Hot Data Shuttle, which can still be
obtained at this link, for only $49.95:
http://www.agatetech.com/products_shuttle.html
Press release:
http://www.agatetech.com/news/hotdata111798.htm
This is a barebones product without any of the fancier
features, and they only cite compatibility for
Windows 98/SE/ME. Additionally, their ratings on
the Reseller Ratings website indicate that, while
users found Agaté Technologies helpful in 1999,
as of 11/'02, they are very difficult to contact.
A good compromise seems to exist in this next unit,
the Vision Black ATA100/133 IDE Hot Swap Drive Tray
from Vision Computers, whose homepage is here:
http://www.visioncomputers.com/
While I couldn't find the unit on their website,
it is available from Tiger Direct for $59.99,
and features a keylock and 2 cooling fans:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=282214&Sku=V133-2024&SRCCODE=NEXTAG
The ad copy states:
"Designed for ALL VisionMan Server & Gamer PC's with
an IDE Interface.", though I can't see why it wouldn't
work with any PC with an IDE interface. As far as true
hot swapping capabilities, it is not clearly stated that
you need not power down the PC to trade drives.
Given the vague descriptions and poor customer service
in relation to the two lower-priced units, I'd probably
go with the Vipower or the Granite Digital units.
==================================================
So I'd say you've found a winner with the Vipower.
If you want the best prices on computer gear, track
what you want at PriceWatch.com:
http://www.pricewatch.com/
However, I didn't find either the 10LSPF-HP or the
SuperSwap 1000 there.
I don't know that I can help you any further.
sublime1-ga
Searches done, via Google:
"hot swap" IDE -server -raid -rack -rackmount
://www.google.com/search?q=%22hot+swap%22+IDE+-server+-raid+-rack+-rackmount
"hot data shuttle"
://www.google.com/search?q=%22hot+data+shuttle%22
"vision computers"
://www.google.com/search?q=%22vision+computers%22 |
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