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Q: Auto engine oil thickening in certain Toyota engines. ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Auto engine oil thickening in certain Toyota engines.
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: mort-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 03 Jun 2002 14:06 PDT
Expires: 10 Jun 2002 14:06 PDT
Question ID: 20429
What is the technical cause (not effect) for what Toyota Motors calls
"oil gel" (really the oil turning into a thick, gooey mess) in their
V6-3.0 engines.  Toyota's explanation of not maintaining correctly by
not changing oil frequently enough is hooey.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Auto engine oil thickening in certain Toyota engines.
Answered By: juggler-ga on 03 Jun 2002 15:05 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
As you note, Toyota's official position is that the problem is the
result of not changing the oil, as well as stop-and-go driving and
cold weather. From a Toyota Motor Company news release 2/8/02:
"This condition, not unique to Toyota or Lexus products, tends to
occur due to three factors. Changing motor oil less frequently than
the recommended interval is the primary cause along with short,
stop-and-go-driving cycles and cold weather climates."
http://www.yotarepair.com/News_release.html

Veteran automobile journalists Tom & Ray Magliozzi addressed this
question in a column dated May 7, 2002. According to Tom & Ray, Toyota
blames the problem on lack of maintenance while "other independent
engineers claim that there is a design problem that causes some Toyota
engines (mostly 3.0-liter V6s) to sludge more frequently than other
manufacturers' engines."
For the whole column, visit: 
http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/2002/May/07.html
 
In "Your Wheels; Engine Sludge Failures Blackening Toyota's
Reputation" (Ralph Vartabedian, Los Angeles Times, March 13, 2002),
retired Valvoline oil researcher Norm Hudecki, identified as "among
the best-known lubrication experts in the nation," says that oil
gelation begins at 12,000 and 15,000 miles.
A "lubrication specialist" at the American Petroleum Institute named
Dick Clark added, "Are some engines more forgiving to dirty oil?
Probably."  According to the article, "[s]ome engines have better
piston rings, valve guides and gaskets that keep contamination out of
the crankcase. Some have better crankcase ventilation systems to
remove combustion gases that blow in the crankcase. And some engines
simply handle sludge better than others."
For the full article visit:
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/abstract/110442365.html?did=110442365&FMT=ABS&FMTS=FT&desc=Your+Wheels%3b+Engine+Sludge+Failures+Blackening+Toyota%27s+Reputation

For more discussion of this issue, read Usenet postings from other
Toyota owners and mechanics [ http://groups.google.com ].
Specifically:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=toyota+%22oil+gel%22&hl=en&lr=&client=googlet&selm=3CEC4FFC.5C5708EE%40addr.com&rnum=4
Or generally:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&client=googlet&q=toyota+oil+gel&btnG=Google+Search

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga on 03 Jun 2002 16:15 PDT
I couldn't get a link to Automotive News' [ http://www.autonews.com ]
article on the subject because their archives are subscription-based,
but in their April 8, 2002, they have a fairly detailed article
entitled, "Toyota broadens sludge-repair program; Automaker alters
V-6, insists neglect is cause" (Richard Truett). The article includes
a slighly different theory on the problem.
According to the article, Larry Parry, identified as "an independent
repair technician in Orlando, Fla., and host of a radio auto-repair
talk show," blames the gel problem on the fact that the Toyota V6
engine's cylinder block runs at 190 to 210 degrees Fahrenheit while
the cylinder heads reach 260 to 270 degrees. According to the article,
this 60-70 degree difference is much greater than the industry
standard for temperature differences between the cylinder head and
engine block which is generally between 10 and 15 degrees.

Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga on 03 Jun 2002 16:19 PDT
Sorry for the typos in that clarification:
It should have been: "... in their April 8, 2002 issue..."
Also: "... includes a slightly different..."
mort-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars

Comments  
Subject: Re: Auto engine oil thickening in certain Toyota engines.
From: cronian-ga on 03 Jun 2002 19:20 PDT
 
I don't know if this is quite what you are interested in but I have a
Toyota Ciena Minivan and its oil has been getting messed up really
quick requiring lots of oil changes. At first they blamed it on
maintenance, but then they sent me a letter saying that they would
replace it for free while still trying idemnify themselves from claims
of responsibility. If this is the problem you are having I suggest
contacting your Toyata dealer and ask about them fixing this problem
for free. The way they are handling is this that you bring in your car
and pay for an oil change and if oil gets messed up within a few days
they will fix it free.

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