I need a list of most of the places mentioned in the bible - with
their equivalent modern names. This would cover cities, areas,
countries, rivers, etc. I am not in a hurry. There has to be a book
with this list in it, I just haven't been able to find it.
Thank you, Rebecca from Atlanta |
Request for Question Clarification by
errol-ga
on
22 May 2003 21:15 PDT
Hi there, Rebecca!
I have found a very large list of the places mentioned in the bible
with maps and descriptions of the locations.
Would you like me to go through each location and using modern maps
and other information, find out the equivalent towns and cities?
I also have around 30 bookmarks from the research I have done so far
and have found many books, although the one which you really need is
out of print.
Kind regards,
errol-ga.
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
23 May 2003 05:32 PDT
Hello Errol-Ga: Thank you for your interest in my need. It doesn't
have to be just like this, but I envision a list with 3 columns. It
would show the ancient name as mentioned in the Word, with a little
note in the next column of what it is (city, river, mountain, etc.)
and then the last column would be the modern name. So one might be
Mt. Hebron -(mountain in Egyptian-Sinai penninsula) Mt. Sinai. Or
Jebus (city in Israel) Jerusalem. Some have stayed the same: Damascas
(city in Lebanan?) Damascas. See, I'm not even sure. What a shame.
I know there are at least 1,000, but probably well over 2,000 if you
could catch them all. I would be pleased to pay any reasonable price
for this list. All my research has found just the same 100 or so,
mostly for countries. It seems like it would take forever researching
and making the matches from maps - or I'd have to go through one of
the many bible companion/dictionary/encyclopedias and cull them out
from the many thousands of entries. It just seems that there must be
a list somewhere. Of all the bible scholars who have devoted their
lives to studying every minute detail, surely one somewhere has made a
list of places with how we would know them now. If not, it looks like
a need looking for an author. I've been on this search on and off
during lunch hours for months and it only looks like there is no list
easily available. I'd be grateful for your help. Thanks, Rebecca
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Request for Question Clarification by
tutuzdad-ga
on
26 May 2003 18:27 PDT
Archeologist and expert on biblical toponymy, Professor Yohanan
Aharoni, is quoted as saying this about his life long study of the
subject:
“In the final analysis the most certain identifications [of biblical
place names] are still those dependent upon preservation of the
ancient name, albeit with careful examination of written sources and
archaeological data. Out of the approximately 475 place names
mentioned in the Bible only about 262 have been identified with any
degree of certainty, i.e., 55 per cent. Of these 190 are based upon
preservation of the name, viz. 40 per cent of the over-all total. . .
. Only 72 places (15 per cent of the over-all total) have been
identified in situations where the ancient name is not to be found
somewhere in the vicinity, of which only about half carry a degree of
certainty, the remainder being more or less conjectural.”
Having said that, I located a book (Aharoni is not the author, by the
way) for $27.00 (Barnes and Noble is currently offering the same book
for $41.50) that apparently covers the subject of biblical place names
and their present-day name and/or locations where modern names are not
known. If this is sufficient as an answer please let me know and I
will post it as an answer.
Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
26 May 2003 19:24 PDT
Hello, thanks for taking an interest in my dilemma. I have spent
months researching my need for a fairly complete list. In just the
old Schofield bible, there are over 800 places shown as mentioned in
the Word/bible. I scanned it into my computer today. There are
actually many more if you count all the rivers, mountains, and
regions. I know that there are bible companion-guides (I own many of
them) from which someone could sit for weeks gleaning the data. I may
have to resort to paying some retired Christian to do the laborous
project of taking the top 3 reference books and writing only the place
names, and the description, as shown in the books...or a computer
person to scan in all the pages of all the top 3 reference books and
culling out everything that is not a place name, and them combining
them back into one alphabetical list form. But it just seems there
must be a fairly complete list already somewhere that has these
1000ish names as shown in the Word, what it represents (a river, a
city, etc.) and its modern equivalent. Thoughts? Thanks, Rebecca
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Request for Question Clarification by
tutuzdad-ga
on
26 May 2003 20:01 PDT
Are you interested in the region now known as the middle east only or
are you asking about the entire ancient world? I might recommend, for
the sake of success, that you post several appropriately priced
questions related to specific regions of the ancient world in the
event that only limited information can be found.
Regards;
tutuzdad-ga
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Request for Question Clarification by
tutuzdad-ga
on
26 May 2003 20:22 PDT
I see a number of problems compiling such a list. As you know the
Bible spans several thousand years and names changed then just as they
do now. There may be several names for a single place therefore there
is no way to know which place is which unless you specify a particular
time as well.
tutuzdad-ga
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
26 May 2003 21:25 PDT
Hello, I apologize if I haven't been clear enough. Or maybe it is
just that I'm asking for such an odd thing. It doesn't seem to me to
be odd at all, since I need it. But because I haven't been able to
find such a thing, perhaps it is very odd indeed. I would like a list
of the places mentioned in the bible. Any concordance has this as
part of their listing of all words in the bible. And any bible atlas
has a list of places shown in their maps of the bible world. But I
need one step further. I would like to buy a list or book that
contained A) the list of the places mentioned in the bible; B) what
they are such as river, mountain, city, etc.; and C)what their name is
currently. If in that process of bible name and current name, it also
has some other changes, it would be magnificient to have all the
incantations of it that place. I am sorry to be "beating a dead
horse" - or nagging, but it seems there would be a book somewhere that
I could buy that would have such a list. Maybe someone should create
a book, if indeed there is not one. I'm just willing to pay a
finder's fee for telling me what to buy - what book or source that has
the equivalent of the 3-column list I am trying to obtain. Maybe we
should quit our jobs and create such a book? :-) Rebecca
|
Request for Question Clarification by
webadept-ga
on
26 May 2003 22:33 PDT
Hi,
It is not that the question has not be addressed before, it is that
the question can not be answered. Take these 5 cities, Sodom,
Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboim and Zoar. A few less than accurate Bible page
maps may have locations marked for these cities, and there are some
good guesses placing them on or near the south end of the Dead Sea,
but despite that, we really have no clue where they were located.
The first four were obliterated by "wrath of God", and Zoar simply
disappeared. We aren't sure where it was, since the only references
work off the other 4's locations, and Moab. We think we know where
Moab was, and with that reference can guess (within a few thousand
miles) where Zoar might have been. The fact that Lot hides with his
daughters in caves near Zoar, puts it either near a mountain range or
near a canyon area, which doesn't do much to narrow it down :-)
So, any list we gave you with the known information currently
available would either be very incomplete or erroneous. I'm sure there
are bibles with maps that guess where the locations are at, but they
are only guesses and should not be confused with true accuracy of
location.
These are just 5 cities, and they are very well known cities in the
Old Testament, mentioned several times. The lesser known cities,
rivers, ranges, canyons, fields and deserts, ??? who knows where they
were?? if they don't survive to the modern times. Even if they do
survive, and were prominent places in the Bible, their location maybe
in doubt and uncertainty, such as Capernaum and the lake of
Gennesaret.
webadept-ga
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
27 May 2003 06:21 PDT
Perhaps your insights highlight the reason no one has been able to
find such a list. Maybe it actually doesn't exist. Okay, if we give
up on a thorough list of bible places, do you think there may be a few
hundred generally correct ones? Could there be a list of the
countries, rivers, mountain ranges, large cities, etc.? In prophecy
when it says that people will flee to the "Petra", the books seem to
know that city - with a facade carved into the rock of the
cliffs...and Rosh and Tubal, etc. So is there a list of the ones we
do generally know, more than the few dozen of the most obvious
countries and locations that I've compiled myself? Golly I wish
there was a good list of bible places and their current names.
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Request for Question Clarification by
tutuzdad-ga
on
27 May 2003 12:48 PDT
It might be helpful to know which ones you have already compiled so we
can avoid a duplicate list (or at least duplicates "on" a list) if we
were to find one. Personally, I am convinced that such a list does
exist, but as webadept mentioned, it will be largely conjecture -
there is absolutely no doubt about that. The book I mentioned earlier
may provide many answers to questions you have not resolved and may
even contain a list similar to the one you need. I have an email out
to someone about the contents of the book and I will get back to you
if I get a response.
tutuzdad-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
webadept-ga
on
28 May 2003 23:12 PDT
Hi again,
See, even this simple city Petra has a bit of a problem in finding
location. Petra was the capital city of the Nabataeans, who moved into
what was Edom, after the Edomies moved northward. This is sometime
around 440 bc, give or take a few decades.
Petra, as you say, is described as a city which had elaborate house
and temple fronts carved out of the pink cliffside. Probably looked
much like the temple in the last Raiders movie, the one with the holy
grail. Trouble is here, that this was done quite a bit by several
civilizations in that time period, so it isn't really a "unique"
description. Petra's site is often equated with the Edomite city of
Selah, which is mentioned in the Bible in connection with Amazia's
re-conquest of Edom. 2 kings 14:7
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=2+kings+14%3A7+&NIV_version=yes&KJV_version=yes&language=english&x=14&y=8
Sela
or Selah (sīl) (KEY) [Heb.,=rock], in the Bible, unidentified town, S
of the Dead Sea. Amaziah captured it and renamed it Joktheel. Some
identify Sela with Petra. Sela in the first chapter of Judges seems to
be another rock.
http://www.bartleby.com/65/se/Sela.html
http://www.bartleby.com/65/pe/Petra.html
Often equated, and "the same site", though, are two very different
things. Often time periods and simple facts get mixed up, at the times
of the writings, which can throw a would be map maker off by a few
thousand miles. Often two sites, several hundred miles apart are
called the same thing, only 50 years later. So getting an accurate map
down would, again, be very difficult, even boarding impossible. Of
course every day someone is doing something that someone else said is
impossible, so it is not without hope, but... perhaps beyond the
current knowledge we have today.
I do understand your frustration though, I run into the same thing
very often in my own studies. Some things look so simple when starting
out for an answer and just keep getting boggled down with details. :-)
I appear to only be bringing unwelcome news however, so I'll back off
this question and perhaps a researcher with greater knowledge of
biblical history will be able to shed some light for you. I would
suggest perhaps, as has been mentioned, getting together a list of the
areas you are most interested in, and presenting that, instead of
asking for "all" of them.
thanks,
webadept-ga
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
29 May 2003 10:54 PDT
Everyone has been lovely to give me thoughts and feedback. The very
few I have from my own research are the obvious countries, here is a
sample: Ammon being basically Jordan; Aram being Syria; Arkites being
Lebanon; Gomer is Germany/Ukraine; Javan - Greece; Philistia -
Palestine; Mizraim - Egypt; Phut/Put - Egypt; Riphath - Europe; Tiras
- Italy; Elishah - Syria; Kittim - Cyprus; Shechem - Nablus -- you
know, the general kinds of stuff. I wonder if I should give up? Or
beg a retired person to sit and research for weeks/months at the
library and with my bible companion reference books? I surely would
pay a good price for a mostly-right, correct-ish sorta-kinda list of
the 1,000 mentioned in the Word! :-)
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Request for Question Clarification by
pinkfreud-ga
on
29 May 2003 11:28 PDT
The "New Bible Atlas," from InterVarsity Press, is very helpful:
http://www.gospelcom.net/cgi-ivpress/book.pl/features/code=1443
I have not used this, but my pastor has recommended it: "Dictionary of
Bible Place Names," by Harold Henry Rowley:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/0551005416
Here is something that sounds interesting: National Geographic
Society, INDEX TO THE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC SOCIETY'S NEW MAP OF BIBLE
LANDS AND THE CRADLE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION, With 3,166 Place Names
and a Special Index to Historical and Biblical References.
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=179833268
The "Baker Encyclopedia of Bible Places: Towns & Cities, Countries &
States, Archaeology & Topography" sounds comprehensive.
http://www3.addall.com/New/compare.cgi?dispCurr=USD&id=768453&isbn=0801010934
Let me know if I'm on the right track with any of these, and I'll be
glad to see whether I can find more in a similar vein.
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
29 May 2003 13:29 PDT
Hello, thanks for trying, but we have all those kinds of sites and
bible companion reference books that allow us to research and compile
lists. We are looking for the list itself of the bible places and
their modern equivalents - already created. Now THAT I'd pay for.
:-) Rebecca, Atlanta
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Request for Question Clarification by
pinkfreud-ga
on
29 May 2003 13:36 PDT
The National Geographic work which I mentioned earlier is an index of
3,166 place names from the Bible and the ancient world. If this is not
a "list," can you describe what you mean by "list"? Do you require
this to be in the form of an online database?
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Clarification of Question by
bibleauthor-ga
on
29 May 2003 14:29 PDT
I think I'll just give up on this. Yes, 3166 places from the bible IS
a list, but as in the original unchanged post, I am looking for the
list WITH ITS CURRENT NAME - like Jebus is mentioned in the Word, but
we call it Jerusalem now. It you can get me a list of 1,000 places
mentioned in the bible along with their CURRENT name, I'll be happy to
pay whatever the list costs and the $50 finder's fee for the tip.
Thank you.
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
30 May 2003 09:13 PDT
A researcher already mentioned the New Bible Atlas, which includes as
one of its key features a "comprehensive index of place names with
modern equivalents".
This certainly looks like the list you are seeking. If you can bear
with us just a bit longer, and explain why the the New Bible Atlas
list doesn't meet your needs, perhaps we can locate something that
does.
Thanks.
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